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The Well The Well

07-17-2011 , 11:31 AM
i have a question about a hand i've seen on one of HUSNG.com videos. the hand (played by a coach, dont want to mention names but it's not you) was played in a hyper turbo match , 20$ level:

blinds 15/30
hero (SB) has 33

both stacks are 500

hero minraises, villain ships his 500, hero folds

His argumentation was that he is fliping at best and he invested 'only' 60 chips.

how bad is it? can you ever minraise fold pocket pair <20bb deep?
07-17-2011 , 11:32 AM
oh oh someones gonna get fired
07-17-2011 , 01:04 PM
Thanks for doing this well. I wish you best luck with the new path you are heading in. As you stated solving puzzles is what you really enjoy; I think your new job will surely have some to crack your head with.

Atm I have one I that I cannot solve and just confuses me.
Sorry if this is beyond obvious.

It is about calculating fold-% based on ranges.
ie opp calling 100% MR, flop dry, no draws, and opp is a typical loose-passive
2 7 Kr
you are deciding to 1/2p cb flop or not.

I was first like using stove; selecting each PP, 2, 7, K , Ax, Qx and came towards 66.2% of his range that he will continu.
And cbetting did not made sense at first sight as opponent required to fold 33.3%+ to insta-profit disregarding your left-over equity.

Then I realized that this has to be wrong.
ie each 2 7 K is about 39.8% (excluding the PP) according to stove.
whereas 44*43*42/ (50*49*48)= 67.6; meaning he will hit a pair or better about 32.4%.

Then I thought about the fact that correctly seen you have only 12 combo's for a first card and 11 combo's for 2nd card for an unpaired hand; and such I selected just 2,7 or 2,K or 7,K and saw this resembled 27.8%. Still not 32.4%.

And such I came here wondering if it is actually possible to start from ranges, disregard combo's and calculate which combo's are thrown out and such calc which % opp will fold, because above ex seems to suggest otherwise.
And if yes, how I need to incorporate draws.

Thank you very much.
07-17-2011 , 01:19 PM
I'm on vacation this weekend, may be able to answer some of these this afternoon, but if not I'll answer everybody's tomorrow (keep the questions coming!) For now I'll just answer these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
What are the odds this well grows to become half as large as Weisner's? Larger than Weisner's?
Half as big seems likely, larger seems unlikely

Quote:
Since you've maximized the attention from pretending to be gay, what's next?
Pretending to be a legend at poker, of course.
Quote:
What do you always **** with me on this forum? I still get people from time to time that ask, "What's the deal about Mersenneary trying to demod you?" (the thread title says level in it now too, what the hell?)
You're really fun to **** with. You know it's good to be a good sport, but you have a business reputation to uphold which makes you uneasy at times...which makes you HILARIOUS to pick on.

Quote:
Which players would you like the most to succeed or continue to succeed in the future?
Has to be my students, every "I'm crushing" story just feels really good. Other than that, mjw006, sejje, filthyvermin, and Punch Dancer are 4 people I'd really like to see succeed/continue to succeed. Also, pocketas, the POGger who never has any shame asking me for free coaching because to him I'm just another werewolf fish.

Quote:
Which players do you feel would be happiest if you did not succeed?
I think I have a pretty good reputation for the most part - which can be annoying to people who see my "2+2 mod/Judge of all disagreements/Mr. Appropriate" shtick as just that, a shtick to advance my own interests and my own reputation. I don't think that's really what it is, but it's a fair criticism. So I'm sure people who see it like that secretly root for my demise.

That said, let's be honest with ourselves. We all root for bad results for people sometimes. This becomes evident whenever a name reg that you're whatever with goes deep in a HUMTT - sure, good for him, but must be nice amirite?

Quote:
Can you talk about the vegetarian thing some more? Specifically expanding on the reasons you don't eat meat if you don't mind. Is there a difference for you with responsibly raised/cared for meat (funny/poor choice of words)?
Yes. I take the position that pain and suffering of animals matters, and coupled with the fact about how awful the meat industry is (I don't think anybody disagrees with that, just whether we should care/think about it), that I don't want to support an industry like that. I'd have no problem with eating meat from humanely raised/killed animals, but just so I'm not that ******* who has to ask where the chicken is from, I just abstain.

Quote:
Who are the most unique people (or person) you've talked to as a result of poker?
I got to ask a question to John Nash, once. I asked him where Nash Equilibrium has gone that he thought was cool that he didn't expect it to go. He talked about traffic and said he liked my shirt.

Quote:
Do you value tradition in of itself?
It should have a point to it, but it often does.

Quote:
What's wrong with our country? The world? What's one way you can or plan to help change that for the better?
People will save a drowning person in front of them, but not a drowning person just around the bend. That's not to say we all have to run around spending all our time being lifeguards, but if there's a balance, we're nowhere near it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_andrzej
i have a question about a hand i've seen on one of HUSNG.com videos. the hand (played by a coach, dont want to mention names but it's not you) was played in a hyper turbo match , 20$ level:

blinds 15/30
hero (SB) has 33

both stacks are 500

hero minraises, villain ships his 500, hero folds

His argumentation was that he is fliping at best and he invested 'only' 60 chips.

how bad is it? can you ever minraise fold pocket pair <20bb deep?
It's awful, but newsflash, HUSNG.com coaches have not learned to play poker perfectly. I make errors in every single video I produce.

Occasionally it's best to minraise/fold 22-33 under 20bb (An opponent with a 40% BB VPIP and a 10% 3bet%, for example, minraise/folding is likely going to be best from 17-19bb). That opponent is just extremely rare to play that few hands OOP, though. Even against a 50% VPIP and 10% 3bet, while maybe you should fold when you minraise, there's another far superior option: Openshoving.

In general you should be openshoving 22-33 at all stack depths in a superturbo. You do far better against your opponent's range that would be flatting a minraise but will instead fold to an openshove, which is a huge chunk of hands.
07-17-2011 , 01:19 PM
pool:

player 1 has 3 points, player 2 2 points, player 3 1 point.

last match, team A v team B picking right gives 1000 points. team A has 60%, team B 40%, what would you say nash equilibrium is? if you actually know how to calculate this, how does one calculate it? (if the answer comes down to x picks x 100% of time obv disregard last part).
07-17-2011 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_andrzej
i have a question about a hand i've seen on one of HUSNG.com videos. the hand (played by a coach, dont want to mention names but it's not you) was played in a hyper turbo match , 20$ level:

blinds 15/30
hero (SB) has 33

both stacks are 500

hero minraises, villain ships his 500, hero folds

His argumentation was that he is fliping at best and he invested 'only' 60 chips.

how bad is it? can you ever minraise fold pocket pair <20bb deep?
Game theory wise, it can be the maximum exploitative strategy if villian's strategy is extremely nitty, in practice, it's almost never the case.
07-17-2011 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoni Hillel-Barak
Game theory wise, it can be the maximum exploitative strategy if villian's strategy is extremely nitty, in practice, it's almost never the case.
great question

Mers, I see you said you wanted me to succeed. Knowing what you know of me, do you think poker is "for me"?
07-17-2011 , 03:56 PM
yes
07-17-2011 , 05:02 PM
Interestingly enough the authors of the Mathematics of Poker also work for a trading firm that is big on poker. I heard they encourage its employees to learn the game because it improves their decision making skills. If you happened to find that job on that company, congratulations! Maybe you won't have to quit poker completely ;-)

Favorite poker book?

Last edited by erdnase17; 07-17-2011 at 05:12 PM.
07-17-2011 , 08:46 PM
Greatest post/thread/meme/level you've come across on 2p2? A few BBV threads have made me laugh a lot, just wondering if there's anything that sticks out for you? Doesn't necessarily have to be the funniest thing you've read, can be the most shocking or surprising or a really good strat article that you've always remembered.
07-17-2011 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _locasdf
can you post some of your SB stats for STs? i'd be interested in vpip/pfr/fold23bet for different stacksizes (if you have sat down and written those down at some point - which i guess you have ).

€: i know this is greedy but limp/fold and limp/call would be interesting too
I actually started out in STs with an opening frequency I wouldn't recommend, and HEM has some trouble separating STs from non STs (I had to point this out to red pro Martin Kahbrel this summer, when he tilted me to no end by insisting that his average game length in heads up superturbos was 7.6 minutes, "which makes sense").

In general though there are two reasons I limp: Because my opponent is fairly aggressive and I can limp/call but not raise/call with my hand, or because my opponent is fairly loose and passive with a high BB VPIP, so limp and stab works better than minraise with hands like 95o (usually a raise/fold for sure).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketas227


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSide11
How long would it take you to teach a complete beginner to become a winning HU poker play?
At the $2s? Just a few hours. At the $50s? Probably a full week of 9-5 training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac on
I can't really think of anything to ask - just want to say congratulations and good luck!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Are you the type of person that would rather retire or do something else for little money or grind a job that continued to pay very well?

Do you plan to aggressively rise in the corporate world?
I have the luxury in having enough ways to keep myself alive that I won't ever need to do a job that I have no interest in doing.

The thought of rising up in this new job honestly hadn't even crossed my mind yet, just because "entry level" already feels like a big destination. I pretty much have all of my attention focused on learning and becoming successful before any of this "make it to the top" stuff.
07-17-2011 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyvermin
how much would you need to flip for you life?

50% chance you lose and instantly die a painless death. 50% chance you win and get x amount of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste
Cant get over how stupid this question is lol
Before calling this question really dumb (how can you risk a 50% chance of death for money?), think to yourself this: How many lives (and painful deaths avoided) does a $1,000,000 charitable donation save? If you donate it to the right charity, it's a hell of a lot. Even conservatively, let's put the number at 20 people who would have died if it weren't for that donation (the actual number is bigger, imo). So half the time, you die, half the time, 20 sick African children die. You think you're more important than 20 sick African children??? You'd kill 20 people to keep yourself alive???

This is classic utilitarian thinking, which I'll get into more generally in my next post. With respect to this question, it's important to note that this is actually a pretty bad calculation (the biggest problems people have with utilitarianism are often not actually the philosophy itself, but people making bad calculations). A living mersenneary will go on to save many more lives (I hope!), and so, a premature ending of my life might be a disastrous result for the world (or at least, this is what my grandiose ego tells me). Perhaps, even, people being willing to kill themselves for money as a social norm, even for good utilitarian reasons, would lead to other people killing themselves for much worse reasons and will lead to a damaging general degradation of the value of life. Whatever.

Anyway, as selfish person who does not pretend always to listen to his morals, I'd probably put the number at about $100 million, with the money properly escrowed, etc. That's obviously way more than 50% of me is worth, but go **** yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fkucmicro
What stakes should an average joe be able to beat in 4 months of playing/studying (3-4 hours a day)
Average Joe? 20s maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shove
Didnt read the whole thread, so bare with me if a question already came up. Thanks for doing this!

Biggest "aha" moment?
Biggest leaks you got fixed before you moved up to 200s+?
Most effective learning strategy: videos, coaching or analyzing ones own game?
Will ST be the future of HUSNGs or do you think it will dry out and we will go back to regs/turbos?
Blond or brunette?
Ass or tits?
Biggest "aha" moment was actually just reading spamz's HH reviews and realizing that maybe I was actually good enough at poker to take the next step. He was saying so much about what I felt about the hands (in addition to other good insights) that I decided I had what it took.

Biggest general leak was just not looking for enough opportunities to bluff, thinking about my general strategy rather than having a very adaptive strategy based on my opponent's tendencies. When you're a $100 nit, you often want to play your way and win with your strategy because your strategy is better than your opponent's strategy.

HUSNGs will be just fine, supers, reg speeds, and turbos.

Brunette by a mile. Introduce a tall girl with straight brown hair to me and it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll give her a chance.

Breasts.

More later.
07-17-2011 , 10:16 PM
lol at a world where everyone is going around killing themselves as good deeds
07-18-2011 , 01:53 AM
I haven't been online much so I'm only just going through the thread, but thanks for doing this. GL with the job thing et cetera et cetera~
07-18-2011 , 03:26 AM
Which % of replies to a strategy question (on 2+2 HU SNG) would you consider bad advice?

I'm not talking about +EV but non-optimal plays, but about advice where OP's game would "decrease" if he adjusted his game to the advice in the reply.
07-18-2011 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polycarpus
Which % of replies to a strategy question (on 2+2 HU SNG) would you consider bad advice?

I'm not talking about +EV but non-optimal plays, but about advice where OP's game would "decrease" if he adjusted his game to the advice in the reply.
I'd also be interested to know your 'top forum posters' from this forum, aka. the guys who give good advice that should be listened to.
07-18-2011 , 10:28 AM
Strictly look-wise:

Eva Longoria vs. Kim Kardashian
Winner of those two vs. Adriana Lima
?

Would you commit suicide if that would save two african children with no parents and secure them an average life in the US?

Last edited by fkucmicro; 07-18-2011 at 10:56 AM.
07-18-2011 , 10:43 AM
this is not supposed to be a dig or anything but what are your thoughts on 2+2er gary neville being involved in a 2+2 vegas poker house?
07-18-2011 , 10:47 AM
45BB deep you miniraised and your opponent 3bets you 3 time after yor 17 btns opens. He did mini 3bet 60>120 on 15/30. Are you ship or call? He will cbet a lot, but much more give up on turn than not
07-18-2011 , 10:50 AM
what was the stake where you started?

Lady Gaga or Madonna?

to play a match 5k$: livb or H2Olga?
07-18-2011 , 01:53 PM
Alright mers, glad to hear you've found a route out of poker and that you're so happy. Apt timing for a well. I will miss your dry humour, good grammar and integrity

Top 5 poker players who have genuine potential (a motive) to kill you if you were to meet them irl? With no.1 being the most likely obv.

Why will Leeds United always be a ****ty Northern team forever wandering the wastelands of the football league?
07-18-2011 , 02:24 PM
I have only read about half of this so far, but just wanna say was really happy to hear you had done this, your a legend and if you never played online again you would always be remembered in the heads up community.
I am happy I got the opportunity to meet you, your a good guy and can vouch that you are not gay by the lovely lady you had with you (unless it was a double bluff haha.)
I will give one question for banter: England against USA in the world cup finals who would you want to win?
07-18-2011 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeHerOnACruise
Alright mers, glad to hear you've found a route out of poker and that you're so happy. Apt timing for a well. I will miss your dry humour, good grammar and integrity

Top 5 poker players who have genuine potential (a motive) to kill you if you were to meet them irl? With no.1 being the most likely obv.

Why will Leeds United always be a ****ty Northern team forever wandering the wastelands of the football league?
07-18-2011 , 02:46 PM
Oh nooo!
No mers vids in the future?!
I love all your vids and I think they help/helped me a lot.

So GL in your new job.
07-18-2011 , 02:56 PM
also how did that AIM convo about getting drunk in vegas etc not get more love? that was like top 5 funniest thing anyone has ever sent to me on the internet.

      
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