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The Superturbos (aka "sejjeturbos") Discussion Thread The Superturbos (aka "sejjeturbos") Discussion Thread

07-14-2011 , 04:50 AM
I think about 100 is fine and Cog also mentioned sth like that in one of his vids if I remember well. Bear in mind that 15-20BI swings are very commong on daily basis and much higher may appear.

But while moving up I use about 50-60BIs, of course capable of moving down when needed.

Just use brm you're comfortable with and be able to move down
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07-14-2011 , 05:20 AM
Cheers CrazyRiver
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07-17-2011 , 05:41 AM
What do you think guys about attacking limps with any two? To be precise, we're on the bb, let's say sth like 9-15bb and villain limps (we got a read that he's limping weak). Do we shove here exactly with any 2?
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07-17-2011 , 05:52 AM
what is his limping range ?
are you asking if you should push any 2 when you have 100% fold equity ?
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07-17-2011 , 05:57 AM
No showdowns so far. Everytime we were pushing he was folding (let's say 1-2 times so far). So we can assume he might do it with something like low-mid connectors most of his range? Maybe some, idk, Qx Jx (with low x), sometimes suited?
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07-17-2011 , 06:32 AM
shoving really wide cant be bad , expect your opponent to adjust, if he adjust badly he ll start limping really strong hands aswell which is still fine to shove wide since you ll have a good fold equity, if he start limping a wider range of strong hands you should adjust aswell.
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07-17-2011 , 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel
shoving really wide cant be bad , expect your opponent to adjust, if he adjust badly he ll start limping really strong hands aswell which is still fine to shove wide since you ll have a good fold equity, if he start limping a wider range of strong hands you should adjust aswell.
So if we were villain, the better play would be to limp the strong hands and call a shove ?
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07-17-2011 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoon
How high is the variance of the estimated ev in superturbos? How many games do i need to play to get a good idea of my winrate, based on hmEv? Lets say my true roi is 3%, how many buyin downswings in ev can i expect in these games?
3% is really good. mine is 2something over 30kish games. i am currently on a 100bi downswing.
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07-17-2011 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by not2secure4u
So if we were villain, the better play would be to limp the strong hands and call a shove ?
if a guy is overaggressive every time you limp, would you minraise AA or limp it ?
my point is that if your oppoenent start limping every weak hands and only the top of his range still shoving atc will be profitable.
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07-17-2011 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyriver
What do you think guys about attacking limps with any two? To be precise, we're on the bb, let's say sth like 9-15bb and villain limps (we got a read that he's limping weak). Do we shove here exactly with any 2?
I used to do this a lot and it seemed to work ok at the lower levels but as i got higher it became a bit of a leak and i toned it down a bit.
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07-18-2011 , 08:54 PM
played 1200 30's hyperturbos this week at pokerstars and it just feels like completely waste of time ... but i like the games, my roi is 2% and EV 3%ish with ******edly big swings, but i just dont make anywhere close as much money as i can do 2tabling 60's turbos.. u could argue for rakeback being a good factor but in STs only being 2% rake make it rly hard to put up a lot of rake ... point is, i enjoy grinding STs more than anything.. but feels like not the best option out there.

Anyone on same situation? THOUGHTS?

ty
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07-18-2011 , 09:59 PM
Swings seem huge, had a 20 Buyin downswing in 110 Games yesterday, 30 Buyins under ev. Today i won 10 Back in 60 Games.
Played 30's and 15's.

I will test these longer , depends on the hourly i see after the end of july want 2000 more games to decide.
Fun is great i have to admit, Rakeback is really hard to grind with these , cause you need more buyins because of the swings and cannot grind higher fast.
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07-18-2011 , 10:26 PM
I really think that it's not just ST's anymore. The reg speeds and turbos are all now really reg filled. All the fish are playing the ST's, but no one makes money because of the swings and the beats and the flips! It's only the casino that makes money now! I know I've experience this at every level, small stakes and high. I don't think there's anything we can do anymore. There's just no money heads up.

I think full table DON (double or nothing) games are the only place left for the really skillful play that earns the $$$. It's the only place where everybody isn't solid.

gl OP!
Cheers
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07-18-2011 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeeyay
I really think that it's not just ST's anymore. The reg speeds and turbos are all now really reg filled. All the fish are playing the ST's, but no one makes money because of the swings and the beats and the flips! It's only the casino that makes money now! I know I've experience this at every level, small stakes and high. I don't think there's anything we can do anymore. There's just no money heads up.

I think full table DON (double or nothing) games are the only place left for the really skillful play that earns the $$$. It's the only place where everybody isn't solid.

gl OP!
Cheers
Wow thanks for the advice !!!! I am switching to DON right now !
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07-19-2011 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeeyay
I really think that it's not just ST's anymore. The reg speeds and turbos are all now really reg filled. All the fish are playing the ST's, but no one makes money because of the swings and the beats and the flips! It's only the casino that makes money now! I know I've experience this at every level, small stakes and high. I don't think there's anything we can do anymore. There's just no money heads up.

I think full table DON (double or nothing) games are the only place left for the really skillful play that earns the $$$. It's the only place where everybody isn't solid.

gl OP!
Cheers
The Superturbos (aka "sejjeturbos") Discussion Thread Quote
07-19-2011 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeeyay
I really think that it's not just ST's anymore. The reg speeds and turbos are all now really reg filled. All the fish are playing the ST's, but no one makes money because of the swings and the beats and the flips! It's only the casino that makes money now! I know I've experience this at every level, small stakes and high. I don't think there's anything we can do anymore. There's just no money heads up.

I think full table DON (double or nothing) games are the only place left for the really skillful play that earns the $$$. It's the only place where everybody isn't solid.
best level of the year
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07-19-2011 , 09:59 AM
I totally agree with the toughness.

Back in Jan I was crushing the $50 level over 3k games for around 8% ROI on FT

Now I am on a 2% ROI at the 15's on stars over 1k games and they just seem so much harder
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07-19-2011 , 10:04 AM
Imo at superturbos both 3k and 1k games are not enought for a samplesize
Play sth. like 8k games
At fulltilts st you started with 10bbs right?
So at stars you start with 25 bb which should let your edge grow
The Superturbos (aka "sejjeturbos") Discussion Thread Quote
07-19-2011 , 10:06 AM
No i played after they made the 25bb games on FT

Just does honestly feel harder and more swingy even at the 15's
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07-19-2011 , 10:07 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on number of tables?

And how do you combat the limp any two cbet every flop opponents? Any tips?
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07-19-2011 , 11:36 AM
have a polarized shove over limp range (5-12bb) and check back hands that play well postflop
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07-19-2011 , 12:31 PM
Someone please tell me how to play IP hands like Q4s-Q2s, J4s, 74s at 12-13bb, readless. Limp/fold or just shove (like Nash chart suggests)?
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07-19-2011 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyul86
Someone please tell me how to play IP hands like Q4s-Q2s, J4s, 74s at 12-13bb, readless. Limp/fold or just shove (like Nash chart suggests)?
How can u be readless 12-13BB deep?
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07-19-2011 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasawa
How can u be readless 12-13BB deep?
Seeing just one flop can be enough to lose 100 chips or so.
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07-19-2011 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minesony
anyone grind these superturbo HUsngs on ftp?

i understand the varience can be quite crazy already, but im just curious since they lowered the rake and changed the buyin levels if these things are beatable also whats and achievable roi?

thanks
If it's anything like hyper-turbos on PS (starting with 25 BBs and then very quickly getting down to just a few BBs), I tried grinding these for a couple of months (only 1.2k games since I didn't only play those) and it doesn't suit me. Initially I was on a heater and that's what got me interested, but in the end I got something like 2% ROI over a bigger sample and got back close to breakeven levels.

Even worse are the heads-up hyperturbos where you can really get slapped repeatedly with variance.

The problem for me is that they can really tilt the hell out of me. There's only so many times you can lose with something like KK vs. AK or AK vs. A5 and so on, especially against an opponent who is making terrible mistakes like limping where you're sure you can beat him. It got to the point where I started considering myself lucky if I had something like AA vs. 22 and won rather than just avoiding being unlucky. I even lost 15 buy-ins or so in a row (biggest downswing I ever had playing 6-max SNGs) while each time getting my money in with the best (50%+ equity) and losing.

It has left a permanent scar on me now where any time someone shoves with A5 and I have AJ+, I'm freaking out rather than happy with my odds because it always feels like the 5 is coming or the straight or whatever. The problem is that when I'm shoving with like 86 and win vs. AQ, I don't really remember it that well. I probably give almost as many suckouts but the ones I receive, especially in the latter, critical stages of those hyperturbos, are far more memorable and I'm left with a bunch of bad memories.

So psychologically they can be quite annoying after a while. If you grind them maybe best to do it in very large volumes and multitabling so that those sick suckouts don't get to you since if you really do grind them non-stop, you'll see not dozens but often hundreds of really bad beats every day.

That said, there are a number of people making mistakes in these (ex: limping with only 15 BBs), at least at the lower/micro stakes. Still the edges are generally small even when you play really well since there's little or no room for post-flop play. Sometimes even the mistakes people make can throw off your strategy like having 3 limpers while you're looking at A3 in the small blind with only 8 BBs.

Last edited by newbie3d; 07-19-2011 at 02:09 PM.
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