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Old 08-24-2008, 11:54 AM   #26
filthyvermin
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

"the crooked, satisfied smile of variance" hahahahaha!!! hahahahaha!!!!

too many times bad beats, bad runs, bad play will own my soul and give me days of pure misery. i am one of those people who could use a serious attitude adjustment.

thank you for your clumsy attempt to find symbols for the wordlessness
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:28 PM   #27
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

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awesome post, added to my favorites.
Can someone tell me how you do this please.

Great read OP.
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:48 PM   #28
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Scansion,
I highly suggest you read "Fooled by Randomness".

I'd bet money you'll like it alot.
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Old 08-24-2008, 03:43 PM   #29
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Amazing post but I disagree with this:
(rather than your own lack of abilities) your confidence has finally reached its prime".

Excactly when you think you lack of abilities you lose confidence. This is where it goes wrong, you wont be able to play A-game because you dont beliave in your skill(ability). Personally when I question my ability to play poker, I just get confused on the tables. I dont know what iam doing, and tend to play bad. Either I play sick maniac or very weak-tight and scared. Im also skeptic and think everyone bluffs me or tries to outplay me.

After my opinion it is a need to have pride in poker. To think that im better than most on my tables, or else I get skeptic that they try to outplay me and wont be able to play absolute A-game etc. Its about always be in control(ofcause im not arrogant and think that im the best of the best but feel what I say).
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:30 AM   #30
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Quality post. Wish i could come to terms with dealing with this better!!!!
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:10 AM   #31
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Thanks.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:08 AM   #32
Scansion
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

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Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar123 View Post
Amazing post but I disagree with this:
(rather than your own lack of abilities) your confidence has finally reached its prime".

Excactly when you think you lack of abilities you lose confidence. This is where it goes wrong, you wont be able to play A-game because you dont beliave in your skill(ability).
Stu, I think you misinterpreted what I said, which is my own fault for this was poorly worded. What I meant to say was that when you don't need to look to others for consolation after losing in an attempt to prove to yourself that you were unlucky as opposed to outplayed, you have become more confident than ever.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:04 PM   #33
chumofchance
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Thanks very much, really good post. As someone who struggles with the whole "downswing -> no confidence" problem I appreciate you taking the time to put this on paper.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:30 PM   #34
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Knew this would be good when I saw the author. Thanks dude!
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:14 AM   #35
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

thanks for the post. ill definately be coming back to it from time to time i'm sure.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:58 AM   #36
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Can't get over how great this post is. Not just the content, but the way you wrote it is incredible.

Great read, I'll be reading it over and over for a long time, and I'll be recommending it to people as well.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:35 AM   #37
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

I don't deserve to lose, screw you.



Nice post, nice read.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:06 AM   #38
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

I can't remember where I read/saw this but I also remember a story being told about how many peoples mood are affected by their daily results. One of the methods explained on how to deal with it is to take pride in what you do. When you get home to your wife, go in with a big smile and say "honey, I lost $800 today but most of the people at my table would have lost twice that if they have had my cards"

It's a slightly different subject I know, but it is the "taking pride" factor I wanted to show in this example aswell.

I think what makes it difficult for a lot of poker players in being able to take on varience with this strong attitude is a lot of other factors that puts pressure on them aswell. Bankroll management, expenses, motivation to play poker, life outside poker ect.

If you are miserable in your real life, for whatever reasons, I think you are more prone to get annoyed when you lose than if everything goes really well for you.
Same if you play poker for a living and needs to cover monthly expenses, this can also be a phsycological burden making it more difficult to archieve the thought process Scansion explains in this post.

Just to make it clear I'm not argueing against Scansions post, cause I agree with him. My post is only trying to explain why I think many people might have trouble thinking like Scansion explains.

It's easier to be positive about something if you haven't gotten too much to worry about.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:03 PM   #39
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

nice post scansion, just read it. Amazing coming from a kid that is only like 12 years old or however old u are
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:32 PM   #40
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Very good post on one of the most important issues.

Today I moved up to 100NL (6max). I kept to 4 tables, and after 90 minutes was running at 27BB/100. I took a break and thought "F me, I've just made triple my average daily profit at 50NL, in only 90 mins". Two cigarettes later, I realised what an idiot I was being. At the end of my first session I was thinking only of the money I'd won; session reviews are for sissies when you're a poker God!

Down to earth with a bump, because I know that 27BB/100 is going to turn into 5ish and that I just got lucky first time out. I opened 96s from CO, called BB's reraise and flopped A96, got it all in on the flop v AK (SS only had $60, but still) and the board didn't counterfeit me. Now I don't feel like such a poker god. Now I expect to lose next session. Now I'm in exactly that spot of failing to deal with variance even when it's positive in my favour.

My only optimistic feeling is that I recognised my problem; the first step in dealing with it. Your post will help, ty.
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:17 PM   #41
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Very nice post. I like your references.. Those are classic psychology posts that brought back memories for me
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:56 PM   #42
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Whoa, great post, thanks.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:11 PM   #43
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Very, very wise...
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:01 PM   #44
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Dunno how I missed this... but it's A+ stuff. It was only in the last few months that I gave up comparing how bad/good I ran and just accepted it. It's helped my outlook on poker... and seriously I'm not trying to be dramatic, but my outlook on life as well. I take everything in stride. A great example is that in September LC Brandysbich posted a pic of us rafting where we are going down a waterfall in a raft... I'm the only one smiling and laughing my ass off, everyone else was super scared/worried/anxious. Believe it or not, this was a product of my new mindset that developed due to poker.
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:05 PM   #45
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

I like. It came at a good time for me too. I'm really starting to feel confident in my game at the moment even though I am currently going through a 7BI downswing. I feel like the cards are stacked against me temporarily and I am focusing on making the best decisions possible and not being bothered by bad beats, the lack of good spots, the coolers, etc. The part that I am surprised about is that for the first time in my poker career, I am not bothered much by my bad run. This post has just reaffirmed that I may be in the correct mind set for this game for a change.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:35 AM   #46
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

just read this for the first time. Fantastic post, scansion!
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:57 AM   #47
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEK View Post
just read this for the first time. Fantastic post, scansion!
ya qft. i still have trouble w/ tilt and omgirunsobad sometimes, but i've been getting better about it. i've never had any trouble leaving it behind and separating my results from the rest of my life-- ive lost 10k+ and gone to football practice that afternoon probably a dozen times and it has never affected me really. same goes, i can go out to dinner w/ my gf and enjoy the night and have a great time after going off for a big number.

what i struggle with is "in the moment" variance that causes me to continue to spew chips and think "jesus how do i run so bad" and that i think is much more difficult to conquer.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:55 AM   #48
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

a lot of good stuff. less long and detailed, but i think ultimately the major impact of a downswing is that it makes you question your abilities. Once you can get over that (without using variance as an excuse to not improve your game) then downswings will become far less relevant.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:49 AM   #49
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scansion View Post
Downswings are especially difficult to recover from because there are multiple forces working against you. Most visibly, you’re stuck and need to win to recover what you’ve lost. The simple financial loss is only the beginning, though. Secondly, you’re frustrated and stressed. (Especially when you’re playing for a living where winning is a necessity) Thirdly, you’ve lost confidence in your abilities- the second worst part of the nightmare. And lastly, feeling sorry for yourself is the final nail in the coffin. Like using multiple drugs simultaneously, the effects are multiplied and can be catastrophic. In the midst of such a trying time, “it will all even out in the long run” is hardly reassuring.
I've basically reached all of those stages right now. Life is a mess with little hope and not much reason to wake up in the morning. Nice to know someone else understands it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:24 AM   #50
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Re: Success, Failure, and the Downswing Mindset

nice post
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