$ST misplayed turn, riverspot - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$ST misplayed turn, riverspot

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08-10-2011 , 10:37 AM

Nederlander

banned

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,374

First hand uknown

Poker Stars, $58.74 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10227862

SB: 500 (25 bb)
Hero (BB): 500 (25 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

SB raises to 60, Hero calls 40

Flop: (120) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks

Turn: (120) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks

River: (120) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets 60, SB raises to 160, Hero calls

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

I should lead the turn, what would you do at river as played and what would you do at the river if we would have bet the turn and he called?

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08-10-2011 , 10:51 AM

daniecol

stranger

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 10

c/c imho

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08-10-2011 , 10:58 AM

chadders0

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,347

fine as played if you fold to river raise

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08-10-2011 , 11:04 AM

qetou

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,226

would fold river too

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08-10-2011 , 11:28 AM

daniecol

stranger

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniecol

c/c imho

ops, i missed a part of the question :P if i have bet the turn i would c/c river, as played probably i fold

my 2 cents

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08-10-2011 , 11:31 AM

Nederlander

banned

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,374

Hm ok, his line just didnt make any sense to me and i made a bad call. He had A3. Doubt hes ever bluffing there.

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08-10-2011 , 11:57 AM

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

tbh 3xing pre and checking back the flop weighs his range so much towards Ax and pp's that i think checking it twice is perfectly fine.

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08-10-2011 , 12:16 PM

Barbra Streisand

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,741

I don't like c/c turn since he's going to bet his entire range on the turn (or at least he should) and will barrel 90% of the rivers as well with his entire range. You have no idea where you stand. I bet turn to get value of draws and protect my hand, then c/c or c/f river given betsizing/rivercard.

As played it's a fold.

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08-10-2011 , 04:34 PM

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

Why didint you 3B pre, because of the 3x?
What do you guys think of 3B KJ/KQ to a 3x? How much should we make the betsize?

Bet/fold turn for protection/value. As played cc river since hed shown weaksness all the way I cant see anything hes gonna call with. Better give him a last change to bluff river then. If he doesnt bet river you can see what he 3x with and then 3B the **** out of him if his 2x range is the weak one.

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08-11-2011 , 02:10 AM

#10

YertleTurtle

self-banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 562

Not a fan of 3-betting KJ. I'd rather keep the hands we dominate in with us and I would hate both calling and folding to a shove. KQ is closer but similar. I definitely like betting the turn and as played I fold the river.

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08-11-2011 , 03:22 AM

#11

coffeeyay

See my staking thread

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,536

Lead flop imo. With this board texture you're getting floated a lot, and you get a great chance to gii against a dominated range since he might spazz at you with draws and qx kx type hands. Because of the texture and being readless on his cbet frequency getting instant value by leading seems better to lead then go for a c/r.

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08-11-2011 , 01:27 PM

#12

jackoneill

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,299

After thinking a bit about it, I actually like coffee's idea most.

As played, checking both turn and river would really suck - I mean we have a decent 2nd pair and need to go for some thin value somehow.

However, I must admit that I often make the same mistake otr of thinking that his line just doesn't make any sense at all and call his raise.

I'm usually betting close to 100% of turns when they check back otf - but an Ace really sucks since that's just such a huge part of people's checking-it-back range.

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08-11-2011 , 03:32 PM

#13

Nederlander

banned

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,374

Yeah m2, people def tend to peel one of with Ax, T9, J9, 8x which might check behind the flop.

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08-12-2011 , 07:13 AM

#14

huntypro

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by YertleTurtle

Interesting because my question was going to be why not 3 bet pre.

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08-12-2011 , 07:24 AM

#15

enprinte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,095

C/C

As played fold to raise on river.

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08-12-2011 , 10:11 PM

#16

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

Quote:

Not a fan of 3-betting KJ. I'd rather keep the hands we dominate in with us and I would hate both calling and folding to a shove. KQ is closer but similar.

I would call KJ to a 3x and 3B if it where an 2x, to 120, and call a jam.
I would always 3B KQ to 120/160 and get it in.

What do you guys think?

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08-12-2011 , 10:32 PM

#17

YertleTurtle

self-banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 562

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbambocha

I would call KJ to a 3x and 3B if it where an 2x, to 120, and call a jam.
I would always 3B KQ to 120/160 and get it in.

What do you guys think?

This is easy enough to concretely figure out - if we have an assumed opening range and a calling range for villain. With KJ most villain's I run into aren't going to be jamming worse over a 3-bet. 44+, A7s+, A8o and KQ depending on stack depth. Against this range we have 37% equity. Also they are generally folding J9, K8 type hands to our raise which isn't ideal imo.

There are factors that would make me like 3-betting with KJo so its not like its set in stone.

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