You might want to reach out to PADS as well.

He said he knows him IRL and has a good relationship with him and he claims he's a quality guy because he's paying back funds.. which he hasn't done yet.

Just my two cents for those who aren't getting results from contacting Spin.

Regards,

K

Hey guys,
I am a SL member as well.
First of I want to say that I am sorry for everyone involved in this mess. I hope you all will get your money back.

And I just want to comment on the spanish SL member's affirmation. Although I understand his position of view and I was disappointed as well when I heard this story. After all I made some "concessions" just to have the opportunity to learn from "one of the best in the world". If I knew the reality maybe I would have joined a stable where actually the ones that crush alvaro are and I would have been much better.
But at the same time I agree with the rest of the guys here, it doesn't justify theft from the stable.

I'd actually say that everyone is a victim of his cheating:
-the stable unknowingly marketed his challenge and now has to pay the price for it;
- the bettors were scammed;
- and the players were lied to about having the opportunity to learn from the best in the world before they signed the contract (or me - reached diamond just to discover that the guy barely has any content, so it's still the other coaches that are doing all the heavy work).

In the end everyone had to suffer except Alvaro. So I'd say that he is the one and only that needs to be held accountable.

Because of all this I actually contemplated breaking the contract. As he still is a substantial benefactor from all SL profit. But at the same time this doesn't seem fair to everybody else in the stable, everyone that actually works their ass off to make this stable run.

Ideally I'd like if SL could cut all ties with Alvaro, but he probably has a solid stake in the company and probably is unwilling to give it up.

Another option I'd enjoy very much is if "the stable" broke the contract with the stable (Alvaro - let him be the only one left) because of scamming (I re-read the contract, and I think there are ways you can attack what happened here), and restructure into a new stable (basically the same stable but without alvaro and his stake in it). Like a SpinLegends 2.0. And we could consider Alvaro's stake for the time being as a "redemption fund" where the profit will be used to repay everyone that was scammed in his challenge. The logistics of doing such a move seems rather difficult, but a man can dream, right?

Anyways, I hope everything in the end will work out for everyone that has been wronged by this occurrence.

Cheers!

Hello,
Let me give you a brief update of the situation so you know what's going on... Because it's not going in a right direction
I've received a response from Spin4Play that he is willing to repay in installments of 10% per month, which isn't acceptable pace. Everyone knows that he can afford to do it way swifter.
Especially if Pokerstarategy/Spin Legends can confirm that Alvaro is still benefiting from dividends from Spin Legends profits. It looks like yet another delaying tactic - and let's remind this - amount sent thus far still equals ZERO.

I am going to wait until the end of the week and if I won't receive any amount by that time, I, along with other bettors will be forced to explore our options and take appropriate measures in order to retrieve stolen funds.

Regards,
Surebet

bump?

Hi.
I see that topic has slowed down a bit without further developments.
I have not placed a bet in this challenge but have been affected by it as a Spin Legends member and feel obliged to write few words.
After Spin4Play case surfaced I felt cheated and asked Spin Legends about legitimacy of the school and my contract. I have been told that my contract is binding nevertheless face and head coach of the project turned out to be scammer. That leads me to believe that everyone in similar situation has as well been conciously lied to by Spin Legends.
I have consulted with a law firm and the answer was that a contract signed under false advertising is, unquestionably, invalid and players who signed such contract based on the promise of being coached by "The best spin player in the world" have been deceived.
To anyone else who signed with Spin Legends because of false promise - You have a right to terminate your agreement by claiming misrepresentation. You can do it in writing and it will take effect since the moment of the delivery.
Moreover, you, me and everyone else that falls in that category, according to the letter of the law, can sue for damages as victim of the lies we've been told since the beginning.

Of course you don't have to believe me based on anonymous post on the internet forum (anonymity can change if the situation requires it), send your Spin Legends contract to consult with a lawyer or paralegal and find out yourself.

Paralegal and my mind goes

So PokerStrategy, SpinLegends, and Alvaro all continue to profit off of his scam?

What does the current situation look like? He returned the money or not?

Its obvious to me that players can terminate the contract.

I guess anyone with a bit of experience in Poker knows that imediatly
and this applies also to stables who use skype manual reg and software help

IMO although its discussable , any player should keep a % of his roll in form of indemnization .

Hello! I would be interested to know the procedure you did to disassociate yourself from SL. I feel very disappointed with what Alvaro did. If you are Spanish, I can tell you my Skype and we talk. Thank you very much and greetings!

To the hard working grinders in SL that is wondering what they can do in the situation they are stuck in:

Apart form being a professional poker player I have a masters degree in law. If you have any questions regarding your contract/ways to leave it you can PM me and I will go over your legal options to the best of my ability for free and in total confidentiality with You.

In general my advice is simple: Only seek legal council from someone that is not involved in this dispute in any way.

Lawboyy,

No need for legal advise at all. All staking contracts are void in almost all jurisdictions because they violate mandatory law regarding employee protection and/or gambling. All that those contracts are worth is your word; there hasn't been a single case where a staker successfully sued a stakee on a long term contract.

If you feel you have been misled, nothing should stop you from leaving the stable while withholding a fair compensation from your bankroll.

An NVG thread was created: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...4play-1716515/

Hi Sinlegend, is there any update about your situation? did you end the contract? I'm in the same position as you and i'm considering to end this agreement crap as well...

None of these contracts are enforcable according to EU law, as poker is still considered gambling. No-one will sue either.

As long as you're not in MU, I think you it's fair to leave. If you're in MU now, grind it out, and you'd still be ok to leave. I don't think it'd hurt your reputation.

Even in MU, tbh, they scammed too. It's close. But realise that you'll hurt other people (coffeeyay, pokerstrategy), that might not have known. I personally wouldn't leave in MU. But I would perhaps ask for 100% of my action, and leave when MU is paid back.

Whats going on in this case? I emailed spin4play on the email he listed here but he just ignored me. How is it going for the rest in terms of getting money back?

update: got the first two monthly payments.

Back then I was a regular on 100s spins as well battling other regs in an honest way. It's sad to see this story, however I am not surprised at all. This is obviously a pure scam. Besides this though, shady things are going on in spins all over the place. The tactics people at stables use to avoid each other to increase games vs fish make it harder for honest players and are at the least very shady. I hope PokerStars makes a bigger effort in the future to control **** like this cause god only knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in ev we honest players got robbed from playing vs god knows how many people that use these kind of systems. A pure and utter disgrace. Close down that Spinlegends ASAP and damnnnn although I didn't take action in that challenge, I would smack the **** out of this guy if I ever met him.

Hello, Im new in 2+2. I will send you a Pm but I dont known how. I have a contract with sl and I would like to cancel it. if you can help me will be great.

thanks

You need a certain number of posts to PM (I believe its 10).

Now Im not a legal expert. But it seems very obvious, that if you signed the contract because of Spin4plays success and the promise of being able to reach such a level. The contract is simply void, you can simply write an email stating that and the reasons for it and be done with it.

It would then be on them to tell you that they believe the contract is still valid and take you to court for it. However this is very unlikely, unless you owe/make them a lot of money. And you most likely would win that case.

Now in any case, this scenario should be easily avoided, if you not only tell them that you consider the contract void, but also that you remain your rights to sue them for the potential money you lost by signing up with them in the first place. Instead of a stable that actually offered what they promised, instead of commiting fraud about it.

And if you are the person for it (I hate courts and administrative tasks of all sorts, so I wouldnt) you may just go ahead and sue them anyway.

Even if someone is in makeup? So if you´re currently a player of SL under makeup you can just leave them based on this?

if anyone interested about this project let me know.

It all started by mining spins and I found that bug by accident.

TBH I`m still not sure if it was cheating or not. We exploited a bug noone else know about,but at the start there were just so many games I think it didn't really count from an avg. regs perspective considering % of fishes / game.

I think because it violated the terms and conditions of the poker room, it is probably considered cheating/cheating on the bet vs the people that bet against.

But if there wasn't a challenge/bet involved, I'd imagine the avg player wouldn't consider it nearly as bad of a thing to do.

Basically, "found a way to play significantly weaker players almost every game" compared to "found a way to play significantly weaker players almost every game in order to win a challenge + side bets vs unknowing bettors" is a big difference I think.

Definitely interested to hear any more that hasn't come out publicly/your thoughts on it.

I'm open to answer most questions.

I first seen this thread months ago, but remained silent.

How it worked in short:
Main goal was mining spinhhs. At that time you could open any sng table(spins counted as sng from PS POV) by their ID via ctrl+t.
So I had to find a way to find all spin IDs. After months of work with another programmer help to found the stream of all sng IDs coming out in realtime.
From there I knew it was possible still not easy but managable. There were really a lot IDs like all play money sngs etc.

So I was able to mine. And mined until it was possible.
So it happened that this internal function also opened not just the table but it's lobby even after mining was impossible.
There were always 6 more empty tables generated after the last known to be seated. so if at least 1 player seated there were always 6 more empty tables following it. you can figure the rest.


About the challenge and the challenger:

I did not really know about the challenge in depth he just told me he doing some challenge but never looked into it or asked. I profited 0% of his winnings.
He just paid a regular weekly sub fee which was much much lower than before spinlyzer.

Someone asked why he did not have much better ROI if table select:
He had to maintain same fishreg ratio as others on spinlyzer website.
But we had lists like: whales,weakreg,badreg,normalreg,goodr etc. which helped to soften the pool for him.


So it was not that easy as many thinks IMO. it is true he avoided at most times the very good players and catched the bigger fishes.
I think this situation is definitely gray but not all black.
I still think he was good guy he grinded hard (but many good reg would grind hard or even harder on that situation I admit) and was decent player.- tho feel offended he did not share any of his winnings with me.

I think that bet was like an escape plan mainly because of spinlyzer.
And when you are in that situation you really could make yourself believe that what you do is not wrong at all.
As I thought when we run it the pool was just so big I did not really think we take away from others.
At least not from fishes. But still we had to take away some from regs even if it's 0.1c(I have no idea) per game. And I'll be honest I cannot feel sorry for that as I really don't feel that I took much per single person.
I think HUSNG groups and seating programs which were not forbidden took much more per person who was not using it.

So the question is could he really do it without the help?


This all just my opinion just trying to make some things more clear.

Lol that's amazing, thank you for sharing! Even simpler than I guessed back in the day.