I have played about 2000 tournaments of 3 dollar spins and am down around 100 buyins. I had started with a 300 BI bankroll. Is it just not possible to beat the rake at this small level?

I bought the spin and go pack by Coffeeyay and have approached studying just as hard as playing. I know most of you will recommend some sort of stable, but I doubt I will qualify as I play poker as a pastime and not as a full time job. I can't put in the hours required.

I don't want to move up stakes simply for lower rake and continue to lose. I find myself heads up most of the time and are dealing with 2/3 fish that are either hyper aggressive or I get sucked out by shoving and they win the flip.

Frustrated.....thoughts?

What is your chip ev / tournament? It is really the only remotely sane way to judge performance.

Also what does your EV look like HU. The pack you mention is focused almost entirely on 3 handed play since it was the first major content out (and has been updated since), and there has been loads of HU content out there.

Based on your comments about getting down to 2 handed, it sounds like some fundamental guidance on how to handle aggressive low stakes fish and what types of hands to call vs 3 bet with might go a very long way towards helping you win here.

Hey,

So my Chip EV is around 30 (hence why I am losing) and I am not sure how to filter for heads up Chip EV, I use PT4.

So these lower limits are beatable without relying on the big multiplier hits in the long run? Or do I just have to take big buyin swings to one day hope to hit something good.

Thanks

To get the heads up numbers use the filters on the lower left. Number of players is under the hand detail category.

It can also help if you figure out the % of rake you've been paying to this point to get an idea of how well you are doing on prize pool spins.

(total prize pools played for)/(number of games) *( buyin *3) * (100)

Then I guess translate that to required cEV to see how far off you are. I think that equation is in the beginners thread somewhere.

Also you could calculate the rake w/o big multipliers to figure out the required cEV to break even on those once you have enough spins for that to converge.

the ev/rake thing wasn't clear in the beginner's thread. I think I figured it out:

(r=rake%/100)

(breakeven Cev)=(1500/(3-(3*r)))-500

I think, anyway.... some extra ()s in there because I missed the day they taught order of operations.

This is assumed for you to break even. Perhaps the biggest multiplier isn't included in this but I would assume the smaller ones were.

Rake EV chips per game
8% 44
7% 38
6% 32
5% 27


As for the beatable nature of 3$ and 7$ I got 100+ Chip EV over a 1k+ sample in both and i'm well in the profit without hitting any multiplier.

Perhaps you should consider posting of of your hands on the forum as it can be good getting another perspective if your struggling. A few good things to know if you want to beat these stakes I feel like is...

1. Standard open range vs unknown - Always adapt if you get reads
2. Shove range vs - unknown - Again you need to adapt to their playstyle
3. Have a strategy for limp/raise/3bet/
4. All in call range - Unknown - Very important to adapt here

Of course there are many more things but these give you quite an edge against most players at these stakes.

Thanks everyone for the responses. It is interesting to know the minimum cEV to beat the rake.

Whia, care to share your studying resources to beat these lower spins?

I tried to PM you, but I guess messaging doesn't exist in these forums or am I wrong?

Thanks!

New users can't PM for a little while, it'll happen automatically at some point, but it's an anti spam feature.

Whia brings up a really good point, post some hands. You mentioned facing maniac aggressive fish, post a few short HHs against those players. You mentioned 3-betting and losing flips, post your last 10 3-bet jams, don't filter at all, just find the last 10 times you 3-bet jammed and post those hands in the forums for feedback. The more honest and open you are about what you're doing, the more likely you are to find ways to improve.