Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2018, 04:31 PM   #426
gdaviezz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 143
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
Has anyone reviewed BPC's Charts they have for sale for $10? They're full interactive and seem decent.
Is it an App? id be careful using something like that I was banned a while back for around 2 weeks for using some preflop charts app
gdaviezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 05:14 PM   #427
Knittle
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 828
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdaviezz View Post
Is it an App? id be careful using something like that I was banned a while back for around 2 weeks for using some preflop charts app
Browser based I believe.
Knittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 05:35 PM   #428
gdaviezz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 143
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
Browser based I believe.
Should be fine then, i would be careful buying stuff from BPC as afaik they dont have any known good players? or atleast iv never heard of them mentioned, imo you have to make your own charts or join a stable to get the most up-to date stuff or take ranges from a solver like PIO/skierdb
gdaviezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 08:29 AM   #429
xPISCIVOROUSx
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 752
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
Has anyone reviewed BPC's Charts they have for sale for $10? They're full interactive and seem decent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdaviezz View Post
Is it an App? id be careful using something like that I was banned a while back for around 2 weeks for using some preflop charts app
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
Browser based I believe.
is an excel file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdaviezz View Post
Should be fine then, i would be careful buying stuff from BPC as afaik they dont have any known good players? or atleast iv never heard of them mentioned, imo you have to make your own charts or join a stable to get the most up-to date stuff or take ranges from a solver like PIO/skierdb
my preflop ranges are on a desktop app that runs on flash, been using it for a while and havent got any issues.
xPISCIVOROUSx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 08:54 AM   #430
gdaviezz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 143
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx View Post
is an excel file.


my preflop ranges are on a desktop app that runs on flash, been using it for a while and havent got any issues.
thats probably because its just you using it? a friend of mine made a little charts app, 5 of us used it, stars picked up on it and banned us all for 2 weeks
gdaviezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:22 PM   #431
xPISCIVOROUSx
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 752
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
thats probably because its just you using it?
I can assure you im not the only one using it and im also sure there are more than 5 people using it.
xPISCIVOROUSx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 04:51 PM   #432
egspongi619
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 145
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

What is your average duration for a spin and Go tournament ?
egspongi619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 05:10 PM   #433
gdaviezz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 143
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by egspongi619 View Post
What is your average duration for a spin and Go tournament ?
8 minutes i think
gdaviezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 08:55 PM   #434
xPISCIVOROUSx
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 752
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

25 hands or so believe you play 7 or 8 per hour if you´re 1 tabling.
xPISCIVOROUSx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 03:37 PM   #435
BiggAli
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 197
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quick question, what is the best strategy to use with A2-A7 in HU situation with 8-12BB ITB vs reg in 50$ spin & gos ? min raise call / fold ? limp and call ? shove ?
BiggAli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2018, 05:17 AM   #436
none888
veteran
 
none888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,630
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAli View Post
Quick question, what is the best strategy to use with A2-A7 in HU situation with 8-12BB ITB vs reg in 50$ spin & gos ? min raise call / fold ? limp and call ? shove ?
Just shove vs anyone, only other option Id consider is limp call/jam if you have good read BBs iso is very high, something like idk 60%+
none888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 06:41 PM   #437
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,694
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny80 View Post
I got one about my redline. It's going down too fast imo. Do you think in shallow stack games like spins, preflop or postflop is where I should be focusing my attention if I'm to improve my non-showdown winnings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefirmative View Post
Your preflop game has to be fairly solid. Preflop mistakes will be smaller but are much more frequent than specific postflop mistakes. Bad ranges pre also hurt you postflop.

Don't worry about your redline, focus on making the best decisions each hand. Plenty of crushers have a losing redline. Your redline will go up the more you're betting and the bigger you're betting because people will fold more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeeyay View Post
^this

The issue with the red line is that it's not a good predictor of EV. This is because there will be many decisions that are very close in EV, but have drastically different results in terms of red line vs blue line earnings (examples include bluff catching on river and thin value betting).

The one use in examining them is that if one of the lines is drastically worse than other winning regs then this gives an indicator of the types of places you should look for leakfinding. However, even in this case it's not the best of indicators anyways because the losses can be coming from a number of different spots and not all of them will be worth the same leakbusting EV. Some leaks will be unimportant to change while others will be very important, and the red line gives no ideas as to where these spots are or how important they are.

Cliffs: Ignore red/line blue line. Your time is better spent elsewhere.
Thanks for the analysis!

There's a weird inconsistency in my non-showdown winnings Namely, over a small recent sample of 777 games (686 $0.25s and 91 $1s at Stars), my 3-max and HU red lines are pointing in opposite directions and are different at a statistically significant level. How normal is it?

Namely, the 3-max one is -19 chips per game while the overall 3-max EV is 36 cpg. The HU red line is +19 cpg (avg over all the games, not just those 564 - 72.6% of the sample - where I got HU; the avg per HU finish is 26) while the HU EV is 54 cpg (or 74 chips per top-2 finish). Thus the total red line is breakeven; the total sample EV is 90 cpg (the standard deviation of this estimate is 15 cpg), and 3-max is 40% of it (is this ratio on the high side?).

Apart from leaks, an explanation that I've come up with is that people who shove or overbet too often at 10/20-15/30 are abundant at 0.25s but relatively unlikely to survive until the HU, so in the 3-max, while they're still in, I often have to give up my blinds or postflop pots, not only because of the pot odds but because I try to maximize the winrate in the whole tourney, whereas the HU phase is usually vs the more tight-passive subpopulation, who overfold to postflop aggression.

Last edited by coon74; 12-10-2018 at 06:52 PM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:16 AM   #438
siebenacht
Pooh-Bah
 
siebenacht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,602
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
How normal is it?
From my personal experience it's normal. 3 handed most of your winnings come from opponents spewing to you, so it's tough to have a positive redline 3 handed.
headsup it's in turn tough to get people to showdown. Also quite a big portion of the HU game is just push/fold. So you usually have a positive redline here.
siebenacht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:21 AM   #439
oooooohmy
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht View Post
Also quite a big portion of the HU game is just push/fold.
That's definitely not true, unless you are an old school 6max reg.
oooooohmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:44 AM   #440
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,694
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Well, $60+ endbosses are great at postflop play and can afford to r/c A7s 12 bb deep or even raise 2.5x over a limp; I hate the decision fatigue that postflop causes, so I just jam because the low stake population sometimes calls with much worse out of the blue (to be exact, their calling ranges tend to be inelastic to the stack depth, i.e. they call wider than Nash deep but tighter when super-shallow, as in, <8 bb).

I really feel that jamming mediocre Ax/Kx a bit wider than Nash extracts hassle-free fat value from Stars $0.25-1 population just like it did from the recs of €10 Twister in 2014-15. Simplifications like this allow me to play a bit more tables at the price of a slight ROI drop.

Thanks for the replies!

Last edited by coon74; 12-11-2018 at 11:03 AM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 05:54 PM   #441
Mikey0023
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Hey all, I'm transitioning to spins from cash games. What are some good free resources or content creators I should check out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mikey0023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 03:38 PM   #442
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,436
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey0023 View Post
Hey all, I'm transitioning to spins from cash games. What are some good free resources or content creators I should check out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Play a lot, read and post hands on this forum to start, see how you're doing then you can evaluate what your next step is. For every 4 players that tries a game out, maybe 1 will stick with it for more than a month or two, so just really get your feet wet, make sure the game is enjoyable enough for you and see where you're at in a month or two (or hell, jump right in if that's you! Just my advice is all).

We have some free spin and go content on the HUSNGcom youtube channel, but it's not particularly structured for learning from scratch, so there will be a bit of exploration and decision making on what to watch and when for you.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 05:57 PM   #443
Sevendeuceoff72
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Hey guys. I am just now starting to grind some Spins on Stars.

I have experience in playing STT 6-max SNGs so i know some basics.

Is there some place i can download some low cost or free simple HM2 HUD and some charts?
Sevendeuceoff72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:44 PM   #444
PaulyJames200x
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,392
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Is there a way to find out how much money the top spin and go players made in a certain year? I know sharkscope shows for tournaments but it doesn't for spin and go right? Is there a way to see how much money the top 10 players made at each stake such as 3, 7, 15, 30, 60, 100 etc?


I would assume for someone to expect to make say 50k a year in spins, its probably at least 60 dollar minimum stake right? Curious how much the top 15s players make a year on average?
PaulyJames200x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2019, 02:38 AM   #445
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,436
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulyJames200x View Post
Is there a way to find out how much money the top spin and go players made in a certain year? I know sharkscope shows for tournaments but it doesn't for spin and go right? Is there a way to see how much money the top 10 players made at each stake such as 3, 7, 15, 30, 60, 100 etc?


I would assume for someone to expect to make say 50k a year in spins, its probably at least 60 dollar minimum stake right? Curious how much the top 15s players make a year on average?
Nope, there used to be a site, it was banned by Stars but kept going. Eventually Stars stopped it by adjusting the HHs/disabling spectating.

Honestly, I think it's a shame, I feel all results on every site should be public. Even if they changed usernames to #s, that's fine, but transparency for both holding the poker sites accountable and reasonable expectations for players makes a lot of sense to me.

The only arguments I hear against are player privacy, and even if you accept that whatever username a player chooses needs privacy, you can just change it to a number on the tracking site.

It also draws player interest, bad players and good alike want to play games with potential profit, most players in online poker would not play if they were expressly shown that there is no way to profit (such as roulette), it's been proven where sites released unprofitable games and very few played.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 08:01 AM   #446
Islander636
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 43
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

I've made transition into spins and I have a difficulties with understanding how does chipEV counts. Does it take into account situations when we calling a shove on pre/post with 70+ eq and lost, then next hand our stack is around 2-3bbs and we lost hand with 40% eq and busted out from tournament? Does it count all game situations pre/post? I had 2 losing sessions in a row (but that's no point) and they both look similar to me, villains just destroyed me, but in 1st sesh my chipEv was ~180 cEv and in second sesh ~ 34 cEv

Could somebody explain to me how chipEv counts in following situations:



1. 3max 20/40 Hero (SB) TT 10.5bb mr/call BB's jam QJo 560 14bb and lost

2. HU 30/60 Hero go all in preflop on SB with 8bb efs with ATo and lost flip to 55, then next hand he goes all in with 66 and lost to 77

3. HU 20/40 Hero SB 15bbs mr/call AKo and lost to BB 17bb jam with 89s

4. HU 20/40 even stacks SB shove 12bb A5s and Hero call with AQo and lost.

5. HU 20/40 Hero was favorite with stack 20bb vs 5bb then lost 2 times when he has 70%+ (not in a row) and when stacks became even he lost 20% on 80% and ggnore.

6. HU efs 12bb hero open jam 33 and win tournament vs AA
Islander636 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 05:50 AM   #447
none888
veteran
 
none888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,630
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

chipev is chips won/lost when someone folds or you get to showdown with no all ins before river + chips won/lost adjusted to your equity when in all in situations with cards to come, so in your post you are addressing only small part of how chipev is made.
And in instance 5. its not even possible to accurately tell what is your chip ev because there are some other hands played.
But for those situations, lets take 4. so 12bb all in, total pot 24bb, you have 68% equity of 24bb pot which is 16.32bb, so after this hand your chipev would go up 4.3bb.
none888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 04:36 PM   #448
Islander636
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 43
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by none888 View Post
chipev is chips won/lost when someone folds or you get to showdown with no all ins before river + chips won/lost adjusted to your equity when in all in situations with cards to come, so in your post you are addressing only small part of how chipev is made.
And in instance 5. its not even possible to accurately tell what is your chip ev because there are some other hands played.
But for those situations, lets take 4. so 12bb all in, total pot 24bb, you have 68% equity of 24bb pot which is 16.32bb, so after this hand your chipev would go up 4.3bb.
Thanks for the clarification. As I understood, chipeEv does count into account only a current hand outcome, without outcomes of previous hands, when we go all in, we'll get chipev based on our eq% and when we take pot by winning on showdown or making fold out villain's cards we get pure chiveEv (we won at SD with nAI 235 chips, so our chipEv will be 235 for that hand) Am I right? Could you explain how did you get 4.3bb? My math skills need improving (if blinds 20/40 then we earn 172 chips everytime we play this hand that way?).
Islander636 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 06:45 PM   #449
none888
veteran
 
none888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,630
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

jup ok you go all with 12bb, so your 12bb + opponents 12bb = 24bb, your equity is 68% so in long term you will win 68% of 24bb pot which is 16.32bb, you started hand with 12bb so your net won in the long term will be 16.32 - 12bb = 4.32bb
none888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 04:12 AM   #450
Islander636
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 43
Re: Spin and Go Beginners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by none888 View Post
jup ok you go all with 12bb, so your 12bb + opponents 12bb = 24bb, your equity is 68% so in long term you will win 68% of 24bb pot which is 16.32bb, you started hand with 12bb so your net won in the long term will be 16.32 - 12bb = 4.32bb
Many thanks for your replies. Finally I got it.
Islander636 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive