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Spin and Go Beginners Thread Spin and Go Beginners Thread

03-11-2021 , 03:47 AM
Hey all,

Got back into Spins over the last couple of months. Things have gone quite well ~75cev over 1000 tournaments.

I have a few questions about PT4...

1) I've noticed something odd in the way PT4 is calculating all-in adjusted in 3-way pots. Basically it is under-valuing my all-ins.

Lets say SB goes all-in for 300 chips, BB is all-in for 300, and I call 300 making the pot 800. We turn over our cards an I am 40% to win. As I understand it, when I check my all-in equity adjusted in PT4 is should show 320 chips (40% of 800). But it never does...it is always much lower. Where as it should be 320 it will show like 120. Why is this? I meant to save an example of this from PT4 but i forgot and cannot find a hand...

2) PT4 is not reporting $ won properly above 3x. I am playing $1 games and won several $5 tournaments and 3 $10 tournaments but PT4 only shows my net profit at like $1.92 or something like that. Any idea why this is?

3) I understand that PT4 will not report all-in equity at the time of an all-in shove if the other players are not all-in. ie. If I jam AA with 4bb and both villains call but are not all-in. Is there a way around this? It is really annoying when I jam AA with 4BB only to lose to a straight and have PT4 show it as a negative equity play!
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03-11-2021 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silky28
Hey all,

Got back into Spins over the last couple of months. Things have gone quite well ~75cev over 1000 tournaments.

I have a few questions about PT4...

1) I've noticed something odd in the way PT4 is calculating all-in adjusted in 3-way pots. Basically it is under-valuing my all-ins.

Lets say SB goes all-in for 300 chips, BB is all-in for 300, and I call 300 making the pot 800. We turn over our cards an I am 40% to win. As I understand it, when I check my all-in equity adjusted in PT4 is should show 320 chips (40% of 800). But it never does...it is always much lower. Where as it should be 320 it will show like 120. Why is this? I meant to save an example of this from PT4 but i forgot and cannot find a hand...

2) PT4 is not reporting $ won properly above 3x. I am playing $1 games and won several $5 tournaments and 3 $10 tournaments but PT4 only shows my net profit at like $1.92 or something like that. Any idea why this is?

3) I understand that PT4 will not report all-in equity at the time of an all-in shove if the other players are not all-in. ie. If I jam AA with 4bb and both villains call but are not all-in. Is there a way around this? It is really annoying when I jam AA with 4BB only to lose to a straight and have PT4 show it as a negative equity play!
edit: for 1) sb all-in for 300, bb all-in for 200 (not 300), I call for 300.
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03-12-2021 , 06:27 PM
PT4 calculates the allin EV from the time the cards are tabled.

So, yes, if you are allin pre and one villain makes 2pr+ post flop it will show you losing EV

It cannot work back and show your ev as though villains were all in pre as their getting to river very much depends on the cards and action to come. PT4s explanation can be found here:

Spoiler:
Problems Accounting for Multi-Way Pots
The problem that both Hold’em Manager and PokerTracker 3 have with accounting for multi-way pots has to do with unknown holecards. In order to make an accurate “EV” (results-oriented) calculation, the software must know the holecards of all players in the hand at the time Hero went all-in — even the holecards of the hands that were folded.

Of course, unless you are a superuser, this is impossible to know.

Let’s say it’s no-limit hold’em and three players put in $25 each before the flop. The starting stack sizes and hands are as follows:

Hero ($100) — A♠ A♦
Villain A ($400) — K♠ K♦
Villain B ($400) — 9♠ 9♦
Flop ($75): 3♠ 2♦ 2♥. Hero pushes all in for $75, and both Villain A and Villain B call.
Turn ($300): XX (any card). Villain A pushes all in for $225, and Villain B (?).

Here’s the problem: Let’s say Villain B only calls if the turn is the 9♥ or 9♣ — that is, if he can beat A-A — but folds if the turn is any other card. What happens is that 41 out of 43 times, for the purposes of the All-In EV calculation, Hero shows up as having 91.616 percent all-in equity against the K-K hand. However, two out of 43 times, Hero shows up as having 82.946 percent equity against both the K-K and 9-9 hand. This happens even though Hero was all in against both opponents at the time Hero went all in.

This is clearly incorrect.

EV if Turn is Non-9 (41 out of 43 cards)
Player All-In Equity Pot Size EV All-In EV
Hero 91.616% $300 $274.84 $174.84

EV if Turn is 9 (2 out of 43 cards)
Player All-In Equity Pot Size EV All-In EV
Hero 82.946% $300 $248.84 $148.84

Consequently, if poker-tracking software were to count this hand in its All-In EV calculation — as Hold’em Manager appears to do — the software will systematically overestimate Hero’s All-In EV. As a result, users as a group will tend to appear unlucky.

PokerTracker 3, on the other hand, does the opposite and does not account for this hand at all for the purposes of calculating All-In EV, and instead only makes the “EV” adjustment when all holecards of callers are known. Unfortunately, this method is not quite optimal either, as accounting for multi-way pots in which all cards are known without accounting for multi-way pots in which hands are folded should result in a smaller bias in the other direction (i.e., the user should theoretically appear slightly lucky rather than very unlucky), but a bias nonetheless.


PT4 should account for multway pots where all players are all in pre accurately, maybe there is an issue to do with there being a side pot i'm not sure. they have a forum you can ask in

as for the incorrect prize pools make sure pokertracker has the correct tournament summary folder. if it does not have a summaryh it will assume a 3x i think
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03-27-2021 , 03:34 PM
Hi I've been playing expressos on winamax (spin n go), nitros mostly.
I'm not great at probabilities beyond standard % and I'd like to know what is the probabilty of not hitting the max multiplier after x number of games.

exemple: Expresso €100 €1,000,000 max jackpot
Probability 4 in 1,000,000 .
What's the probabilty of not hitting at least 1 time after 1 million games?
After 250000 games?

If anyone has the time to answer this I'll be very happy.
Also if you can put the formula so I can do the maths for others multipliers.
Thanks
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03-27-2021 , 03:59 PM
There's two ways to do this, one is too monte carlo it, the other is a simple formula

Probability of it not happening is 999,999/1,000,000 which is .999999

Then multiply that number by the amount of attempts. .999999^1,000,000=.3678

So the probability of it not happening over 1 million spins is about 37%, meaning you'll get it about 63% of the time you run a million spins.

Goodluck
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03-27-2021 , 04:54 PM
thank you so much!

Quote:
Probability of it not happening is 999,999/1,000,000 which is .999999
is this always this number or the 4 chances in a million makes this:
999,996/1,000,000 ?
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03-27-2021 , 10:27 PM
Yes it would change according to odds

You're four chances in a million is correct, your could also simplify it by swapping 4 in one million to 1 in 250,000 so 249,999/25000

If you're really serious about all the various scenarios then you can learn how to create monte carlo simulations using excel on YouTube in 1-3 hours probably but otherwise this formula works for general ideas

I strongly recommend all poker players read a book called the drunkards walk, it explains statistics for non math people and will totally change how you interpret the numbers when you see them
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05-03-2021 , 01:14 PM
Hi Guys,

What are the pros and cons of std Spins v flash Spins? Which are the most profitable? Are they beatable?
Spin and Go Beginners Thread Quote
05-07-2021 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Il_First_Il
Hi Guys,

What are the pros and cons of std Spins v flash Spins? Which are the most profitable? Are they beatable?
I think it depends if you want to play more post flop or not. If you don't like post, just stick to flashes
Spin and Go Beginners Thread Quote
05-08-2021 , 05:05 PM
I guess the flashes are just about Nash ? Are they beatable?
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06-14-2021 , 09:34 PM
Just getting back into online poker after a 10-year break (lol) and got into spin-n-gos.
I'm only playing micros, the 50-cent ones on Ignition/Bovada. But I'm losing quite a lot more than I expected.

I've played 124, won 43, and I'm down $10. I added my last 88-games (Ignition doesn't let you grab HH until 24h have passed so I don't have them all) into HM3 and my chipEV/All-in Adjusted EV is 104, yet I'm not winning.

I know it's a small sample size and 20-buy ins is nothing in a naturally high variance game, but am I missing something fundamental here? Any other stats I should be looking at, or could HM3 be calculating it wrong?

I know I don't play perfect and I'm not a crusher, but very surprised to be losing at the lowest stakes offered.

Thanks!
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06-14-2021 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twil08
Just getting back into online poker after a 10-year break (lol) and got into spin-n-gos.
I'm only playing micros, the 50-cent ones on Ignition/Bovada. But I'm losing quite a lot more than I expected.

I've played 124, won 43, and I'm down $10. I added my last 88-games (Ignition doesn't let you grab HH until 24h have passed so I don't have them all) into HM3 and my chipEV/All-in Adjusted EV is 104, yet I'm not winning.

I know it's a small sample size and 20-buy ins is nothing in a naturally high variance game, but am I missing something fundamental here? Any other stats I should be looking at, or could HM3 be calculating it wrong?

I know I don't play perfect and I'm not a crusher, but very surprised to be losing at the lowest stakes offered.

Thanks!
Completely meaningless sample size for both real money and EV results.

https://www.primedope.com/tournament...ce-calculator/
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06-15-2021 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg
Completely meaningless sample size for both real money and EV results.

https://www.primedope.com/tournament...ce-calculator/
Thanks for link. I played around with that website and can see that with like a 3% roi you can run negative over the course of a huge amount of hands.

I know 124 games is meaningless, but I was hoping that at least the chipEV or some other stat could tell me if I am on the right or wrong track?

Or if theres something else I should be looking into to improve? I guess I don't want to continue grinding and lose another 20 BI if I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. I checked out some beginner resources here, and some videos on YT, but not much in the way of free info other than some push/fold charts.

Ty.
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06-15-2021 , 12:50 PM
Yea... I would just not play spins.
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01-08-2022 , 04:33 PM
Does anyone have suggestions on the order of memorizing gto charts?
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01-08-2022 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DottyPrawn
Does anyone have suggestions on the order of memorizing gto charts?
Print them out. After a while looking at them whlie playing you will start remembering them. Or just keep them visible like 90% of the players.
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01-31-2022 , 07:04 PM
Could someone give me the formula for chip EV ROI when the starting stack is 300? Ignition went to 300 stacks and I am confused on how to adjust the formula.

Thanks for any help!
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02-01-2022 , 08:22 PM
nvm, figured it out.
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02-09-2022 , 12:55 AM
Where can I find (free) spin and go videos/advice?

(I can't afford to pay for coaching yet)
(Please don't tell me to join a stable)
Spin and Go Beginners Thread Quote
02-09-2022 , 12:57 AM
If you can't afford anything yet, then it's best to just start grinding a bunch of games and posting in this forum. Read through posts from the last year or two as well. We have some solid videos on the youtube.com/husngcom youtube channel as well to peruse.

I like to tell people that are just starting/are playing very low and thinking about education, that if they don't have the funds right now they should consider just making a goal for quality volume and hitting that goal each week/month. Make sure you like the game and are dedicated. If you can't put in volume you literally will never do very well in poker, it's basically impossible, it's kind of a minimum requirement. So work on putting in solid, tilt-free volume and see if you enjoy the game.
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02-16-2022 , 10:38 AM
Thank you @ChicagoRy.

I am a winner after more than 2k games at 0.25 and 1$ level

I just moved to 2$, and I will see how it would goes.

I found a stake, but doesn't include coaching or videos, etc..

Is HUSNG.com for coffeeyay, or only sell videos there? if so, is there a coffeeyay stable?

As for your advice, "So work on putting in solid, tilt-free volume and see if you enjoy the game." is a very solid one, and that's what I do. I set x numbers of games to play and I don't even look at my bankroll.

In case you found some free videos, let me know.

Thank you.
Spin and Go Beginners Thread Quote
02-16-2022 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyondpoker
Thank you @ChicagoRy.

I am a winner after more than 2k games at 0.25 and 1$ level

I just moved to 2$, and I will see how it would goes.

I found a stake, but doesn't include coaching or videos, etc..

Is HUSNG.com for coffeeyay, or only sell videos there? if so, is there a coffeeyay stable?

As for your advice, "So work on putting in solid, tilt-free volume and see if you enjoy the game." is a very solid one, and that's what I do. I set x numbers of games to play and I don't even look at my bankroll.

In case you found some free videos, let me know.

Thank you.
Not giving you direct links because you I'm too lazy. Google op poker youtube. There are others allso.
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02-17-2022 , 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa_Perse
Not giving you direct links because you I'm too lazy. Google op poker youtube. There are others allso.
Great one.

Thank you
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02-18-2022 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa_Perse
Print them out. After a while looking at them whlie playing you will start remembering them. Or just keep them visible like 90% of the players.
How is this not cheating? I've also witnessed a coach from BPC saying the same thing, as if it was part of the game. WTF? The whole stable should be banned, I hope someone is doing something about it.
My last question is: should poker community officially agree that using all sort of tables and randomizers is just part of the game?
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02-19-2022 , 06:01 AM
Three handed spin, stacks close to 25bb, BTN limps. Both players unknown, but it’s a rec heavy pool.

What’s a sensible range for completing from SB? Or percentage of hands at least?

Also views on best iso sizing in this spot? And which/any hands to jam?

This is a super common spot in my games but doesn’t seem to come up much in training material
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