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Old 09-21-2010, 01:46 PM   #1
Tamas6
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SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

villain is a winning 90man player who seems competent but straightforward. mr and cbets a good amount of flops. has barrelled a decent amount of turns which i think are weighted towards value as i have seen him check back draws on the turn more than once.



the game flow previous to the hand is importand imo. we played a weird hand. i basically thought he never had a 5 or a K because i was pretty sure hed have bet flop or turn or raised turn with a 5. so was trying to get hero called by 3x Ahigh etc

Full Tilt Poker $110 + $5 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1920 32 BBs
Hero (BTN/SB): t1080 18 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BTN/SB with T A
Hero calls t30, BB checks

Flop: (t120) 5 K 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t120) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t90, BB calls t90

River: (t300) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t225, BB requests TIME, BB calls t225

Final Pot: t750
BB shows 5 6 (three of a kind, Fives)
Hero shows T A (two pair, Tens and Fives)
BB wins t750

i typed nice slowroll into chat and i insta reshoved KQo thinking id look tilted he had A10 but i bink. next to hands are button folds then this.

Full Tilt Poker $110 + $5 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN/SB: t1620 27 BBs
Hero (BB): t1380 23 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BB with K J
BTN/SB raises to t120, Hero calls t60

Flop: (t240) K T 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t150, Hero calls t150

Turn: (t540) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t300

from previous matches he has seen me both lead the flop with strong TP hands and CR. he raised my lead and stacked off with flush draw and has folded to all my CR. i decided that cc would look pretty weak here and he would either barrel too light or look me up too light on the river.

this is a pretty horrible turn. i thought about leading and i think that is the best option if we want to continue as i feel he wont bet his air on this turn and may check behind Kx.

fwiw i dont think he ever expects me to have a K here esp a strong K.

easy fold?
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:00 PM   #2
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

leading here represents a v strong hand as well (Tx a lot imo) and wont get a lot of calls of hands you got beat except for QJ/diamonds which will give you a free river anyways, given reads.

I dont mind folding here, especially since if youre calling turn youve got to call the river as well. also this is quite a horrible spot for villain to bluff at, unless he knows that we're capable of folding strong Kings here
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:03 PM   #3
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

why the f you limping first hand?
and 2nd hand, you call flop to look weak, now he barrels and you're afraid to call down? given it's not the best card to barrel but imo he's valuebetting hands that are drawing dead vs you (K2-K9) here
why would you ever lead this turn as well? lol
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:04 PM   #4
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

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Originally Posted by Ship (t)it View Post
I dont mind folding here, especially since if youre calling turn youve got to call the river as well.
yeah because on ftp there's no "call" button but a "call turn and call any river" button or smth? seriously wtf?
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:04 PM   #5
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

Super easy call as his range is wide and we are quite strong. I'm snapping off almost all but the worst of rivers too (ie. Ad and a few others). I think we can even jam here and get looked up plenty of the time by worse.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:04 PM   #6
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

yeah hand 2 I think cc both turn and river is def. I think we ought to fold an ace on the river if he fires another bet. Who agrees?

also just to clarify, if op fires another big bet on river (pot sized) if it's a blank, do we still cc? Of course I think if he fires like a smaller bet then we should call.

I mean what does he think we have? He must think we have something like Kx with a weak kicker, sometimes 10x but us checking river with that would be really weird in his mind, and maybe something like Aq, Aj, but we would've probably 3 bet with those hands. So the only thing we could really rep by cc both these streets is like Kx. Who here is a fan of making a small blocking bet on river and folding to a raise? We would still get value out of all the weaker Kx hands, occasionally be looked up by KQ, AK but lose the minimum vs cc his probably bigger vbet and we would be able to fold against his vbet raise range which would include 10x's and full houses. He might be bluff raising us occasionally with QJ, AJ, AQ but I think that we might be able to rep something like trips with a weak kicker.

Idk upon reflection I think cc turn and donk bet river (like 1/3 or 1/2 pot) is probably best... I can probably prove this using some math to show how overall it's more EV to donk bet because we'd still get value from weaker Kx hands, would win the pot if he folds his missed draws or if he decides to make a hero call with his ace high hands, and would lose the minimum against his 10x type of hands.

Last edited by Obey the Odds; 09-21-2010 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:08 PM   #7
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz0r View Post
why the f you limping first hand?
and 2nd hand, you call flop to look weak, now he barrels and you're afraid to call down? given it's not the best card to barrel but imo he's valuebetting hands that are drawing dead vs you (K2-K9) here
why would you ever lead this turn as well? lol
he had seemed to insta 4x all previous times id limped was reason in the first hand.

the 2nd hand yeah i call to look weak and this and maybe A is the only card im considering not calling down. from what iv seen a lot of people **** themselves when they have kx and this card hits and check it back and bluff catch

i think leading is good on this turn. id lead it almost 100% if i had it plus a ton if i didnt against players who wernt betting there air here so get value from kx that might check behind or if i thought i could fold out kx over 2 streets. also if im going to call turn call river id rather lead turn lead river to get max value from worse kings. i dont think many people bluff this card in this position tbh
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:13 PM   #8
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

i agree. I don't understand, if you think your opponent doesn't know how strong you are, why would you fold?
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:43 PM   #9
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamas6 View Post
he had seemed to insta 4x all previous times id limped was reason in the first hand.

the 2nd hand yeah i call to look weak and this and maybe A is the only card im considering not calling down. from what iv seen a lot of people **** themselves when they have kx and this card hits and check it back and bluff catch

i think leading is good on this turn. id lead it almost 100% if i had it plus a ton if i didnt against players who wernt betting there air here so get value from kx that might check behind or if i thought i could fold out kx over 2 streets. also if im going to call turn call river id rather lead turn lead river to get max value from worse kings. i dont think many people bluff this card in this position tbh
Yeah I mean now that I think of it, my argument for betting the river could actually also be applied to the turn. I mean it seems like op is still going to be calling turn with hands like QJ, AJ, AQ and weaker kings. Also I think if op is c betting a ton, cc the flop is fine, and then donk betting the turn is best because he might be checking back a lot of hands like Ax or AQ, AJ, QJ which will be able to get a free card and be better than us on river. He's still going to be calling in position with these hands. I mean if you really feel like op is going to barrel twice with air, then yeah I guess cc this turn is fine but river I think should be small blocking bet.

I see your point spam. I think I'd cc the river if I felt like person was total aggro and would bet three times with air but I really think that this is an unwarranted assumption. Though idk I feel like checking river may put me in a pretty awkward spot if he decides to make really big bet if blank shows up.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:13 PM   #10
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

Call turn and RE-EVALUATE () river

river spot is more interesting imo
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:17 PM   #11
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Re: SNG- $110+5 how do you play the turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz0r View Post
yeah because on ftp there's no "call" button but a "call turn and call any river" button or smth? seriously wtf?
No cigarettes ? No strippers ? Maybe both ?
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