I've been playing the same reg a lot at $25 turbos, and he has an aparantly fairly wide shove range at 20bbs vs my limps, and this is something I'm seeing a decent amount from other regs as well. The only time I called he had A8o. I can't see how this could possibly be good since my calling range just has to be crushing that. I don't see how I could ever have A7 or below in a limp call range in that spot, It's pretty much entirely going to be high aces that Im trapping with after getting shoved on 5 times.

I personally dont have a shoving range vs a limp until like 12 or so bbs, but it's entirely possible that I should, so I'd really like to hear other people's thoughts on constructing a range at that depth, and what kind of mistakes you think will be made by what type of opponents to justify it..

At 20bb GTO total iso is close to 40% and iso shove/very big size close to 20%, so that would be decent starting point.

ISO shove range will consist from pocket pairs, Axo, suited connectors.

Axo is just a very good iso jam, they play very bad out of position.
I wouldn't adjust this range too much, obv if someone limp/calls all ins with K8o I will stop iso jamming suited connectors and add suited Ax or if someone folds way too much lets say 90%, than Id add more suited connectors and some offsuit Kx. From my experience most people usually overfold in this spot so Id be mostly looking to add more bluffs.

You are probably fine not jamming suited connectors but most Ax is just a must iso jam, there is no way anything else will be better, even like 25bb, not sure about how high you can iso jam as I play only hypers.


Also Id suggest looking in to your SB ranges, if reg iso jams 20bb A8o and you have no worse hands in your range, chances are you are way too tight or you are massively overfolding to iso jams.

Ok you're right I defintely see how A8o is fine for his range, and I'm 100% sure I'm overfolding, but it's a spot I find very difficult to find calls in, unless I just start very heavily limping the top of my range, which seems to work well but even then I still feel like I'm overfolding. What does your calling range look like then? If his range really is mostly Ax and suited connecters how can I feel good about calling low Ax?

There you are right, low Ax is bad for limp/calls so you dont do it, you can use some middle Ax, broadway hands and also good suited connectors like T9s, 98s, J8s etc.
Also you dont need to limp all of your top hands just enough to not overfold.
First of all Id make sure im not limp/folding vs all ins something like 90%+, because than its just super good to iso jam all kind of weak hands.

Iso jamming range of Ax Sc's and pps is a little tighter than gto anyway so overfolding is still fine. Hands none said are good and you can add more traps like strong Axo if they're isoing near or higher than gto