Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2011, 12:01 AM   #1
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Rookie HU Post

Full Tilt Poker $10 + $0.50 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: t2028 67.60 BBs
Hero (BTN/SB): t3972 132.40 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with T J
Hero raises to t129, BB calls t99

Flop: (t258) 9 J 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t222, BB raises to t1899 all in, Hero calls t1677

Turn: (t4056) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t4056) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)


I pushed this guy around the whole match with lots of aggression and he started shoving often pre-flop apparently he had enough of me. Which lead to this epic hand.

I have lots of questions about the hand but before getting specific I will just toss it out and see what you guys think.
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:14 AM   #2
borderline
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,357
Re: Rookie HU Post

1677 + 258 + 444 / 1677 = 2379 / 1677 = 1.4186 to 1 = 41.346% equity needed.

Board: Jh 9s 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.903% 30.27% 10.63% 22177 7788.50 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 59.097% 48.47% 10.63% 35506 7788.50 { JJ, 99-88, QTs, J9s-J8s, T7s+, 98s, QTo, J8o+, T7o+, 98o }


Fold.


or


Board: Jh 9s 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.987% 36.05% 09.93% 44258 12195.50 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 54.013% 44.08% 09.93% 54111 12195.50 { JJ-88, AJs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, J8s+, T7s+, 98s, AJo-ATo, KJo-KTo, QTo+, J8o+, T7o+, 98o }

Call.


Either is fine.
borderline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:15 AM   #3
Newff
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
 
Newff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alberta/Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 5,143
Re: Rookie HU Post

Title your posts better please..example given in the sticky at the top of the forum but I'll post the example here..

$57.50 turbo – Two pair gets checkminraised on turn
Newff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:16 AM   #4
Chip10Leader
adept
 
Chip10Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Repping quads
Posts: 753
Re: Rookie HU Post

why would u want to raise so much pre, especially with this exact hand its just horrible
Chip10Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:24 AM   #5
Stealy Man
old hand
 
Stealy Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,767
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip10Leader View Post
why would u want to raise so much pre, especially with this exact hand its just horrible
preflop raise sizing
Stealy Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:55 AM   #6
Exothermic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Exothermic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: jamaica
Posts: 16,252
Re: Rookie HU Post

full tilt starts stack out at 100bb wow thats nice, wish stars did that

raise less preflop, 4x is not necessary with 67bb effective... raise less otf, board is wet but its basically a pot bet and i think your letting all the hands you get value from fold or putting them in a tougher spot than needs be when your repping too strong for them to call... once he shoves i dont see weaker 1pair jacks in his range so i dont like the call off...
Exothermic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 01:35 AM   #7
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

I had the guy on auto fold at the start of the match 4Xing on the button.

After about 10 hands of that he started flat calling so I started 4xing and 5Xing better starting hands and 3Xing weaker hands because he started 3 betting and shoving after facing 4X bets preflop and pot sized C-bets on the flop.

Is this a flawed game plan?
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 01:56 AM   #8
Exothermic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Exothermic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: jamaica
Posts: 16,252
Re: Rookie HU Post

^^ if he is horrible then it is okay i guess, i hate having bet sizing tells though

if he folded for 4x he prob would of folded same hands for 3x though just saying

also when someone starts 3betting more/lighter to adjust to us opening the btn wider with 100bb stacks ide call alot lighter and use position and re adjust to his adjustment or 4betting wider to discourage him from 3betting... if you just use this 4x and psb strategy the whole time you play him without calling lighter or 4betting more then he is going to exploit you, you can also just slow down and adjust to him by opening less which would be the least variance route but probably not most +ev...

my 2cents...

p.s nits/tags who 3bet more frequent than normal to adjust to you usually dont double and triple barrel hence why flatting and calling there bet once strategy in 3bet pots= good & floating them ott... if they are more spewy/aggro postflop 4betting or folding pf is better or just slowing down all together if we had put him on tilt
Exothermic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:11 AM   #9
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exothermic View Post
^^ if he is horrible then it is okay i guess, i hate having bet sizing tells though

if he folded for 4x he prob would of folded same hands for 3x though just saying

also when someone starts 3betting more/lighter to adjust to us opening the btn wider with 100bb stacks ide call alot lighter and use position and re adjust to his adjustment or 4betting wider to discourage him from 3betting... if you just use this 4x and psb strategy the whole time you play him without calling lighter or 4betting more then he is going to exploit you, you can also just slow down and adjust to him by opening less which would be the least variance route but probably not most +ev...

my 2cents...

p.s nits/tags who 3bet more frequent than normal to adjust to you usually dont double and triple barrel hence why flatting and calling there bet once strategy in 3bet pots= good & floating them ott... if they are more spewy/aggro postflop 4betting or folding pf is better or just slowing down all together if we had put him on tilt

This is really good stuff thanks!

One of my main questions on the hand is if playing as aggressive as I was (4x and 5X pre and pot sized c-bet's on the flop) I know a player as tight as he was playing is going to do 2 things: shove out of frustration or wait for a hand to snap the manic off.

My question is this hand strong enough to play for stacks?

I have no fold equity because he went all in. I have top pair and a strong non-nut draw. It is clear villain will usually show up with a hand here, Was the hand enough in fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, shove, fold, fold, fold, fold then flat call the 4X raise with the hand you been folding for and then shove on the c-bet style villain was playing.
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:22 AM   #10
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by borderline View Post
1677 + 258 + 444 / 1677 = 2379 / 1677 = 1.4186 to 1 = 41.346% equity needed.

Board: Jh 9s 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.903% 30.27% 10.63% 22177 7788.50 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 59.097% 48.47% 10.63% 35506 7788.50 { JJ, 99-88, QTs, J9s-J8s, T7s+, 98s, QTo, J8o+, T7o+, 98o }


Fold.


or


Board: Jh 9s 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.987% 36.05% 09.93% 44258 12195.50 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 54.013% 44.08% 09.93% 54111 12195.50 { JJ-88, AJs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, J8s+, T7s+, 98s, AJo-ATo, KJo-KTo, QTo+, J8o+, T7o+, 98o }

Call.


Either is fine.
Thanks for this post. My dilemma is I believe villains range is stronger than your ranges. If you asked me to put him on a range on the flop shove I would have said:

AA-88, AJ, AK, possible but unlikely based on his tightness (QJ, Q10), I think I may be a bigger dog in this situation against this tight of a player then normal. Am I looking for too many big monsters around the corner with a tight $10 player?
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:28 AM   #11
Exothermic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Exothermic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: jamaica
Posts: 16,252
Re: Rookie HU Post

^^ you have 11bb invested to call 56 or so and against pretty much any value hand you have like 45% equity or whatever, didnt stove it or anything but in general its between 40 and 45 so you could call being a dog but you obviously have a edge on him so ide fold
Exothermic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:30 AM   #12
HokieGreg
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: mr/folding 4.5bb deep
Posts: 4,217
Re: Rookie HU Post

smaller pre, as played snapcall. you dominate a ton of combo draws and it's pretty rare that people just chk/jam nutted hands this deep.
HokieGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 04:07 AM   #13
modchop
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: chode a la mode
Posts: 161
Re: Rookie HU Post

lol wtf never folding here
modchop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 04:26 AM   #14
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg View Post
smaller pre, as played snapcall. you dominate a ton of combo draws and it's pretty rare that people just chk/jam nutted hands this deep.
You make a point I never thought about in this hand:

a tight villain might try to get value from a strong range thinking he has the fish on the hook.

I respect your game but a $10 nitty player pressured and pushed like I was pushing this villain in this match sometimes can't wait to use an expression I have seen around here (fist pump shove) to show the manic he won't be pushed around!)

Less likely at your usual stakes but really not uncommon at the $10 when you play as aggressive as I played this match. It is more common pre when villain picks up a hand like AK.
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 04:38 AM   #15
t1lt
adept
 
t1lt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,152
Re: Rookie HU Post

call.

also quit the clown sizing.
t1lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 05:57 AM   #16
Mattraq1
adept
 
Mattraq1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,149
Re: Rookie HU Post

4wiw vs certain villains ive 5-7xed it pre. Pretty complicated to go into detail the circumstances, but saying 2x or 3x in a vaccume is how to play isnt really helping to OP out.

To reply to the thread, im never folding flop.
Mattraq1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 04:58 PM   #17
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by t1lt View Post
call.

also quit the clown sizing.
What is wrong with the bet sizing?
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 07:05 PM   #18
borderline
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,357
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg View Post
smaller pre, as played snapcall. you dominate a ton of combo draws and it's pretty rare that people just chk/jam nutted hands this deep.
This line of thinking is ****ing retarded and as a coach, you should know better.

How is c/jamming here with 2pair+/AJ awful here? What should they do? Make it 555 and then shove the turn card?

Pass.
borderline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 12:28 AM   #19
HokieGreg
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: mr/folding 4.5bb deep
Posts: 4,217
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by borderline View Post
This line of thinking is ****ing retarded and as a coach, you should know better.

How is c/jamming here with 2pair+/AJ awful here? What should they do? Make it 555 and then shove the turn card?

Pass.
i'm not coaching the villain, sir. i'm just talking about how the average villain tends to play those type of hands here.

btw, i'm not a coach anymore. i just crush lives.
HokieGreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 02:43 AM   #20
reallymonkeyish
grinder
 
reallymonkeyish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UNINSTALL DROOLER
Posts: 570
Re: Rookie HU Post

Why is 4.3x the gold standard????
reallymonkeyish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 02:50 AM   #21
Honey Badger
veteran
 
Honey Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,235
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by reallymonkeyish View Post
Why is 4.3x the gold standard????
This made me laugh. Well done.

It sure seems to tilt the 2x crowd.
Honey Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 07:27 AM   #22
reallymonkeyish
grinder
 
reallymonkeyish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UNINSTALL DROOLER
Posts: 570
Re: Rookie HU Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger View Post
I respect your game but a $10 nitty player pressured and pushed like I was pushing this villain in this match sometimes can't wait to use an expression I have seen around here (fist pump shove) to show the manic he won't be pushed around!)

Less likely at your usual stakes but really not uncommon at the $10 when you play as aggressive as I played this match. It is more common pre when villain picks up a hand like AK.
Just fyi, fish at all stakes are reasonably similar. It's more that there are a TON of them at the $10s, and the ratio declines as you go up. But players at higher stakes play fish a lot, and they're not a ton different. This is a pretty different situation than a 400NL reg who doesn't know how $5 6max games play.
reallymonkeyish is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online