Q9o iso pot turn, SPR 1 - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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Q9o iso pot turn, SPR 1

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04-24-2017 , 02:32 PM

leuboyaz

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 104

BB: 33 BB
Hero (SB): 18 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

Hero calls 0.5 BB, BB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls

Flop: (6 BB) 5

BB bets 3 BB, Hero calls

Turn: (12 BB) 3

BB checks, Hero ?

Villain is a rec, his isoing range ain't that strong. On the turn SPR is 1, so what do you do? If we decide to bet, I think we have only one bet size which is a jam.

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04-24-2017 , 03:30 PM

noxplode

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 45

Your fold equity on the turn is increased compared with the fold equity on the flop. I raise flop. As played, jam turn.

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04-25-2017 , 04:39 AM

Bombardir

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,177

Clear valuebet on the turn, but no need to jam imo. Bet 4-6 BB's.

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04-25-2017 , 05:32 AM

leuboyaz

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 104

Yes, I also think its a value bet ott. I just dont like how Im getting committed to the pot if I just bet around 6 BBs, since I only have 12 BBs left. Anyone else thinks its just a shove ott?

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04-25-2017 , 09:20 AM

expat

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by leuboyaz

Yes, I also think its a value bet ott. I just dont like how Im getting committed to the pot if I just bet around 6 BBs, since I only have 12 BBs left. Anyone else thinks its just a shove ott?

Not sure I follow your reasoning here.

If you think it's a value bet, then you want to be called or raised.
A 1/3 or 1/2 pot bet is more likely to get called or raised.

A push is more likely to get folds or calls from better hands.

You also say you don't want to get pot committed by betting 1/2 pot but you're happy to push all-in.
You can only avoid getting pot committed by checking behind (not advocating doing this).

You need to decide if you want a call or a fold.
Once you're clear on that, the hand plays itself.

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04-25-2017 , 01:23 PM

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

@ expat: some hands that will call a shove won't raise a non-all-in bet, like bluff-catchers or draws. You don't necessarily want to get raised when you value bet. You want to be ahead of villain's calling range >50% of the time. If we bet NAI and get raised here, we're very likely behind, but yeah we have to call because of odds.

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04-25-2017 , 01:38 PM

Pakichu777

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 480

whatever you do don't fold whatever happens

and easy turn bet, 5bb seems fine, jam seems fine, it's all ok

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04-25-2017 , 01:53 PM

leuboyaz

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 104

If we bet around 6 BBs the villain knows we are pot committed and wont ever try to bluff. So as obbudsman said, we are always behind of villain's raising range.

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04-25-2017 , 02:26 PM

noxplode

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 45

I dont think we are necessarily behind villains raising range (some draws might raise) but jamming looks more winrate maxing to me. I wouldn't like the idea of losing value here. Betting 5-6BB is still ok though. Just remember villain is a rec.

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04-26-2017 , 01:51 AM

#10

Bombardir

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,177

Jamming is probably not too terrible, but betting 5-6BB her allows villain to make more mistakes imo.

No need to be afraid of getting raised here as we are not that deep and the frequency of that is much smaller than the times we get value.

Besides, your jam will be just called by the entire raising range so I don't understand how you could possible use that to defend jamming over betting small.

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04-26-2017 , 02:06 AM

#11

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombardir

Besides, your jam will be just called by the entire raising range so I don't understand how you could possible use that to defend jamming over betting small.

Ofc, possibly facing a raise is not a reason to shove. It's just that I think we miss value by betting smaller.

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04-26-2017 , 02:21 AM

#12

Bombardir

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by obbudsman

Ofc, possibly facing a raise is not a reason to shove. It's just that I think we miss value by betting smaller.

In this case I think it's the opposite. Imo you miss value by jamming.

When you think about his 3x ISO range what part of it is going to call a jam here vs a 4-6BB bet.

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04-26-2017 , 11:43 AM

#13

obbudsman

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,472

There aren't many weaker Qx, 8x and pair+draw combos in the population's iso range, but they are still iso'd some percentage, and I think most players have a very hard time folding them to a turn shove (besides JJ-99).

Btw, I think checking to bluff-catch rivers might also be a good option.

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04-26-2017 , 05:43 PM

#14

noxplode

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 45

Not betting turn (either nai or ai) is a huge mistake imo. You are in a difficult spot with either A or K on the river.

I agree about the ISO range preflop.

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