Update

After a lot of discussion there has been some big changes in how this topic is being handled. Here are the links to the newest changes:

- $60s Group Discussion Thread

- $100s Group Discussion Thread

As you may notice, the threads are split off into separate buyins. This was requested by them so they can individually discuss their particular rules and situation.

60s cartel will never work. It is much more +EV to be in non-sit list which is also not in cartel list as there are far too many regs.

Also in the beginning of the cartel I expect the things you mentioned would be major factors.

People thought the 100s cartel would never work.

K if the 60s cartel works, then the 30s cartel will never work

lol always ready with a good answer

60s cartel sounds funny , would require a lot of organization haha

and afaik lobbies r good enough to not even be worth it?

not really, 100s waitlist now is shorter than 30s waitlist

I think the 60s are the lowest stake where the cartel might work.
It was only the natural thing to happen after the forming of the 100s cartel, because alot of regs had to move down to 60s/ play only 60s so the WL becomes too long

Remember your words for next year when some will have to battle 7usd mafia

Is there a $1.5 cartel that is taking in new members? If yes, what are the requirements to join?

apologies for ignorance but, what is "the cartel"? What is the point of it?

Is it just regs not battling regs and battling weaker players?

If so this is the problem with poker at the minute, regs not battling regs everybody waiting on one fish.

It is not regs battling other regs. It's very well ORGANIZED group of regs (can call mafia if you like) battling unorganized single regs. It is like in a street fight 10 attacks 1 and are kicking till he dies (moves down in this case).

not funny

sorry

Can you stop these cartel regs sitting you with sharkystrator? i have not used the program so i am unsure

This is true, but I think it was mainly because the last one was so disorganized and failed to hold people accountable.

This one is not even 2 months old, but seems to have been done far better than the last attempt.

Haha.

No, the program doesn't let you avoid people that want to play you.

It's the opposite. The better regs at most levels (say, $100-1ks, but probably $60s now) don't want to wait for lobbies. In the past, they've been far too complacent about what regs can sit the lobbies without testing them. The lower in stakes you go the more of a problem it has been, so groups of primarily better regulars have decided from now on they will hold each other accountable to sit other regulars not in the group (they can also sit each other if they want, there's no rule about not sitting another person in the group, which I think makes this clearly OK to do).

In practice, everyone is a human being, so nothing is perfect, but things are going well overall I believe for most levels. There's always going to be friends and family members that get in that shouldn't, especially at lower levels, and some other unfair things, but that's sort of life. By and large, it seems these have worked well to eliminate what had become too soft of a bumhunters way up the stakes in HUSNGs (similar to HU Cash). Luckily, enough people have realized that just a little test to earn your keep at any level is enough to eliminate some of the weaker players.

Having a tough mentality, keeping emotions under control and not spewing all over when running bad vs good players is now a skill of HUSNGs again.

So basically for a player who only recently started Husng's its going to be so hard to climb the stakes past these cartels who have what 30X your bankroll if not more?

at what point do they stop targeting a player?

I think people should be able to avoid playing a certain player if they want too.

If i play against a certain player and just think "wow this guy just kills me, i need to stop playing him" I basically can't if they keep sitting me?

If you recently started playing HUSNGs, you probably shouldn't be playing $60s or $100s unless you're willing to lose money while learning.

You'd be playing any winning player if you just started and moved into $60s or $100s with or without groups (any winning player sits any player without good stats/sample right away to play them, even at lower levels... a blind respect for good stats is really the problem that many of the better regs are out to solve with groups).

People have never been able to avoid a certain player in HUSNGs. In HU cash, you can, and it makes the action and volume so weak, and it protects weak players that only want to go and play bad players.

Imagine you're the 3rd worst HU Cash player in the world. If you only play hands vs the 2nd worst and worst you can be a very profitable player. That's a terrible system.

No you cannot, but this has always been the case with HUSNGs (MTT, SNGs, etc.) and has nothing to do with groups.

The majority of the people complaining about cartels are bumhunters who were the first who benefited from getting sharkey. While regs would sit other regs and try and get lobby but they sneak in for a game and snipe a fish.

But in general if you are not good enough to play the regs at a certain level you really should not be benefiting by getting dead money. In years past it was often suboptimal for a good reg to sit weaker regs because of how small edges are/rake/alt gm selection (volume of fish).

Since hypers make fish lose money to fast it was bound for the volume of recreational players to decrease. And this is a logical way to trim the fat. Like any system there are flaws. Just don't be the 100th red balloon.

Obvious, if there is evidence of players sharing databases cartel or not then that is highly unethical and frowned upon. But outside of the speculation do not know how this can be against rules or even frowned upon. If you want to solely be able to play fish go wait x hours in cash, but even that i think will change soon.

#tryingtofindfijistill

Well currently im still learning so a long way from the 60's, I guess ill just have to be fearless when i do get there and give em hell (if possible lol)

I agree with most of what you wrote
But this part can be flipped the other way around

Now Imagine you're the 3rd best HU Cash player in the world. If you only play hands vs the 2nd best and best you can't be a very profitable player. That's a terrible system.


Not saying that that is happening now
But it could

No, it really can't because the 2nd most profitable has no incentive to play the 3rd best if there are 500+ people weaker than him to play.

Now, if there is nobody else around, then it makes sense, but in a healthy game like HUSNGs, that's a far cry from "you can only play hands vs the 2nd best."

In a cartel of 50 people you could make it 45th best
I just used 2nd best as an example

Nevermind
I might have spend to much time in a coffeshop tonight
Dont even know wtf my point was anymore

been there, made me laugh a ton

Can we take away 'cartels' from the title?

From the start it was a ridiculous thing to call these groups and putting that word in such a prominent position will only be detrimental to the husng community when random people browsing the forums hit the husng subforum.

Even if you don't mind scaring away recreational players, if you keep 'cartel' in the title every other post itt will be people asking if something unethical is going on.

+1, this thread should'nt be imo