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Is this ok or just spew? Is this ok or just spew?

10-24-2010 , 08:21 PM
Opponent is 2+2er teamsk, very aggressive. This is in the final of the weekly forum tournament.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 6 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t2076)
Hero (BB) (t1924)

Hero's M: 64.13

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, 9
SB bets t40, Hero calls t20

Flop: (t80) 10, 9, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets t55, Hero calls t55

Turn: (t190) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets t120, Hero calls t120

River: (t430) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets t430, Hero raises to t1709 (All-In)
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-24-2010 , 08:32 PM
I raise turn to like 360 to value draws and 2p+, hes also leading twice so its not like hes checking flop and stabbing the turn, he will have a hand here alot of the time, as played im not folding.
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10-24-2010 , 08:45 PM
I totally forgot: This is the 6th hand.
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10-24-2010 , 08:47 PM
I agree that villian probably has a hand here given that 9 is a pretty bad card to bluff.

I like c/r the turn b/c if he checks back river, you are missing a lot value. Although this line looks pretty strong, I think you do better against 10x by c/r the turn rather than c/calling.

I think by ck/calling the turn you are assuming he will barrel his missed draws/air on the river which im not sure you can make that assumption w/o a specific read.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-24-2010 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexDJI
Opponent is 2+2er teamsk, very aggressive. This is in the final of the weekly forum tournament.
This is so funny to me, because you're the third of my opponents in this tourney to call me very aggressive, when I'm usually by far the most passive reg at my stakes since it's just the most profitable approach against fish. That's why I really enjoyed playing vs. thinking opponents for a change

As to the hand in question, if you have an aggro dynamic going and your opponent expects you to raise most of your drawing hands on this flop, the 9 on the turn is indeed a very bad card for him to be double barreling, because it hits your flop flatcalling range so hard.

That being said, I think I'd raise turn here and try and get it in right now before some river cards kill our action. As played, river shove seems fine, the times you have him outkicked with our K outweigh the times you're behind and he might even call you light with all the draws missing.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-24-2010 , 09:17 PM
To me c/r turn just screams HELLO I HAVE AT LEAST TRIPS and I'm not happy at all if you shove, but with my recent downswing I start thinking funny/wrong things. And the 4 on the river is a dreamcard for me to c/r and get looked up light on. Not sure I c/r that many rivers, plan was to c/c or lead, but I thought hey, he might call Tx, overpairs, worse 9x if I c/r there.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-24-2010 , 10:24 PM
river cr is fine imo. clearly more combos of worse 9x than boats and 87. (plus two missed draws which reduce again the chance he's 3 barreling the nuts)

it's not that there's a flush on the board, or multiple straight possibilities. ad you can't even narrow down his 9x pre range because he's in position.

---
(just commenting on river)
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboyboogie0
river cr is fine imo. clearly more combos of worse 9x than boats and 87.
that hard to just check some program to see what you say is correct?

board: Th9c6h9d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
K9o 44.70% 168 18
TT,66,87,92-98,T9,J9,Q9,K9,A9 55.30% 210 18

this even excludes 44 and includes all 92-95 which villain may not even raise pre
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 03:46 AM
I would go for a river c/r too but once he pots its a flat imo.
Potting river mostly means "plz fold" or "plz dont fold TP" and nothing worse than in spamz range(maybe KK+ too) will call your c/r.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 04:16 AM
So no one thinks I could get called light there? I was thinking that his value range should be somewhat wide, and that he would call with most of it.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz
that hard to just check some program to see what you say is correct?

board: Th9c6h9d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
K9o 44.70% 168 18
TT,66,87,92-98,T9,J9,Q9,K9,A9 55.30% 210 18

this even excludes 44 and includes all 92-95 which villain may not even raise pre
you're right, thanks. i was just doing it by hand...
i wasn't counting 66,44,TT, and even not counting them it should be 28 to 29

not sure it's correct, please correct me if it isn't, don't have much time to check right now.
considering a 100% (9x) opening range:

worse 9x:
4 of J9,Q9,98,97,95,93,92
=28 combos

better hands:
16 combos of 87
3 combos of 96,9T,94
4 combs of A9
=29 combos
+ 3 combos of 66,44,TT
= 38 combos
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 09:16 AM
i like to lead the turn here actually
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10-25-2010 , 12:04 PM
i don't know how to get to the river but the way the hand played out i definitely just call the psb.
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10-25-2010 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohly
i don't know how to get to the river but the way the hand played out i definitely just call the psb.
pretty much my thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexDJI
So no one thinks I could get called light there? I was thinking that his value range should be somewhat wide, and that he would call with most of it.
wide as in what? he pots river, that's usually pretty polar if you ask me; i dont see a lot of people playing JT or smth like this here; they either check back turn or river or bet smaller river
if you calculate with a range that excludes 92-95 (92-94 can be heavily discounted because of preflop, and 95 maybe not always, but combine it with 97-98 that doesnt always bet the flop then combowise it works out if you ask me), he needs to be potting river with ALL overpaircombo's and call a crai EVERY time

board: Th9c6h9d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
K9o 53.47% 222 18
AA-TT,66,96-98,T9,J9,Q9,K9,A9,87 46.53% 192 18

if he's somewhat of a handreader, getting looked up light is sort of ridic here, wtf you "bluffing" with? you c/c 2 streets with QJ/J8 or smth? you are turning Tx into a bluff? 76/86 perhaps? you c/c 2 streets with naked hearts?

i'd just lead turn if i havent lead flop already
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 12:39 PM
I'd either lead turn or c/r. River I'd c/c. You don't have the value to c/r.

Board: Th 9c 6h 9d 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.697% 42.42% 02.27% 28 1.50 { Kc9h }
Hand 1: 55.303% 53.03% 02.27% 35 1.50 { TT, 66, A9s, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, 92s+, 87s, A9o, K9o, Q9o, J9o, T9o, 92o+, 87o }

Not to mention teamsk is good enough to bet/fold worse trips here making your c/r that much more worse.
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10-25-2010 , 12:44 PM
well. if i were villain i'd pot here with JJ
lol
(but i don't count ) (and not calling a reraise anyway, i don't think that villain can think that i can think that he thinks that i can pot JJ, and think that i think that he's reraising it as a bluff because... whatever, i lost myself).

going to eat.

Last edited by badboyboogie0; 10-25-2010 at 12:49 PM.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz
pretty much my thoughts



wide as in what? he pots river, that's usually pretty polar if you ask me; i dont see a lot of people playing JT or smth like this here; they either check back turn or river or bet smaller river
if you calculate with a range that excludes 92-95 (92-94 can be heavily discounted because of preflop, and 95 maybe not always, but combine it with 97-98 that doesnt always bet the flop then combowise it works out if you ask me), he needs to be potting river with ALL overpaircombo's and call a crai EVERY time

board: Th9c6h9d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
K9o 53.47% 222 18
AA-TT,66,96-98,T9,J9,Q9,K9,A9,87 46.53% 192 18

if he's somewhat of a handreader, getting looked up light is sort of ridic here, wtf you "bluffing" with? you c/c 2 streets with QJ/J8 or smth? you are turning Tx into a bluff? 76/86 perhaps? you c/c 2 streets with naked hearts?

i'd just lead turn if i havent lead flop already
Ok, all I wanted to know, thank you.

So b/c turn then.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz
that hard to just check some program to see what you say is correct?

board: Th9c6h9d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
K9o 44.70% 168 18
TT,66,87,92-98,T9,J9,Q9,K9,A9 55.30% 210 18

this even excludes 44 and includes all 92-95 which villain may not even raise pre
Thanks a lot for pointing this out!

To be honest, in game, I put him on a 9 when he called the turn. I actually considered shoving the river because I was afraid he might just checkcall with my line being so polar.
Is this ok or just spew? Quote
10-25-2010 , 01:04 PM
Oh and also,

What other hands do you guys lead turn with? How would you play QJ, J8, 87, KQ, KT, KJ, T8, T9, T7, T6, Q8, AT suited and offsuit and flushdraws/combodraws.
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10-25-2010 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamsk
Thanks a lot for pointing this out!

To be honest, in game, I put him on a 9 when he called the turn. I actually considered shoving the river because I was afraid he might just checkcall with my line being so polar.
I think my main mistake in the hand was not noticing you bet full pot. Yeah, that's bad. But if you shove I'm folding lol.
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