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Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

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Old 10-01-2014, 01:57 PM   #126
kobmish
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasiu View Post
I did some simulations on those. If you crush those games at 36.5% winrate (which would come to 5.12% roi in normal 3man sng with 4% rake) you need 355 BIs for just one Kelly criterion!

With 36% winrate (3.36% roi in normal) you need about 1280 BIs for one Kelly.

With 35.48% winrate (2.18% roi in normal) you need infinity as you stop being profitable.

And keep in mind this is one Kelly. One Kelly is not reasonable bankroll. One Kelly means that if you have less, then your long term BR growth will be not optimal.



Anyway, bankroll requirements are one thing, but samplesize requirements are more interesting here. I estimate reasonable samplesize in those to be about.. a hundredth million games. You get 4 top payout games in every 100k games, to reach long term in those (and they are most important) you need to have a few k of them, lets say 4k, so: 100k * ~4k / 4 = ~100M.

If you're a sick grinder you should reach it in just over 80 years
This should get more love. Well done stars on introducing a game that should be passed from generation to generation. If you want to even out the variance in the family that is.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:06 PM   #127
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Finally a game where you can find out if you have a lucky account
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:16 PM   #128
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by Bluenowhere View Post
-1, having a deal functionality kills like 50% of fun.
Once again: you don't have to deal; if you don't want to, just refuse to negotiate.

Playing for $10K is about as much fun as playing for the full prizepool, and underrolled players are going to be scared too, so talking the opponents into giving you a bigger-than-average cut + leaving a lot of money in the game to the winner is a strategic option that shouldn't be dismissed.

Even if you're going to never deal, your opponents will be more tilted and angry and play worse if there is a dealmaking facility but you reject the deal in their faces, than if there's no such facility and they quietly assume that you wouldn't mind to make a deal if you could.

Dealmaking with some mandatory money left in play, as I've suggested above, doesn't subtract much from railbirds' fun, especially because they're used to that happening in MTTs and understand the reasoning behind it. If you think that railing is not fun after a deal, why not jump into the games yourself (and pay more rake to the room to thank it for providing you with the observation opportunity, unlike non-Rational rooms having analogous SnG formats)?

Last edited by coon74; 10-01-2014 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:08 PM   #129
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

all high tier jackpots should start with the question "chop it?". easiest way to do it you don't need support (which i'm guessing is the problem).

maybe the question could be like (alarm sounds question pops up 20s to answer if not play for all)
"CHOP HOW MUCH?
"Play for all, 25% 50% 75% chop it all"

all 3 players click whatever, and you play with the lowest % option a player chose.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:23 PM   #130
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasiu View Post
Anyway, bankroll requirements are one thing, but samplesize requirements are more interesting here. I estimate reasonable samplesize in those to be about.. a hundredth million games. You get 4 top payout games in every 100k games, to reach long term in those (and they are most important) you need to have a few k of them, lets say 4k, so: 100k * ~4k / 4 = ~100M.

If you're a sick grinder you should reach it in just over 80 years
Haha.....I got a nice chuckle out of this, thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by pm_sknk View Post
Finally a game where you can find out if you have a lucky account
Get ready for all the "I'm spinning bad this month." threads.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:36 PM   #131
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agasajo View Post
all high tier jackpots should start with the question "chop it?". easiest way to do it you don't need support (which i'm guessing is the problem).

maybe the question could be like (alarm sounds question pops up 20s to answer if not play for all)
"CHOP HOW MUCH?
"Play for all, 25% 50% 75% chop it all"

all 3 players click whatever, and you play with the lowest % option a player chose.
An automatic dealmaking system like at Full Tilt will suffice, there's no need to advise a deal via a pop-up. It should necessarily be automatic: the time that the admin took to simply arrive, calculate and propose the chop numbers at the WCOOP ME FT was ridiculous.

The simplistic option you've offered won't work that well because consistent winners will want to get a slightly bigger cut of the prize pool than their less experienced opponents. They can of course find the right balance between giving up some EV and exposing themselves to bigger variance and click the 25% or 50% option, but still there will be less flexibility than desired.

Last edited by coon74; 10-01-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:06 PM   #132
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by Glassofbeer View Post
baard will u introduce higher buyins than 30s yes or no? did the traffic at 60s+ HUSNG hypers so far change ??
Would also like to hear an answer about these questions.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:10 PM   #133
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

i think my option is better than deals like Full Tilt, it's faster and trying to get people to give you more $ cuz you are better at these tourneys is just to greedy IMO i would guess most regs would be happy choping it but no idea maybe you are right.

also would you really not deal 36k if they didn't want you to get 12,100 or whatever?
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:14 PM   #134
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Maybe I should post this in the PokerTracker thread but I'll just ask here first; Is there a way to see what amount each "Spin and Go" was played for in the database?

I played 10 x $15 ones today and while my winnings all show the amount returned from the ones I won the losing ones all show minus $15.

I'd like to know the total amount I spun and played for in that sample. Anyone know how to accomplish that?
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:51 PM   #135
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by Agasajo View Post
i think my option is better than deals like Full Tilt, it's faster and trying to get people to give you more $ cuz you are better at these tourneys is just to greedy IMO i would guess most regs would be happy choping it but no idea maybe you are right.

also would you really not deal 36k if they didn't want you to get 12,100 or whatever?
The thing is that they'll be willing to forfeit a bit of $s to me just so that I allow them to reduce their own variance. If regs refuse, they'll end up tilting more than me, which will boost my EV, if not in that particular tourney, then in some indirect way, e.g. if they need to take a long break from play after losing or switch to another format permanently, I'll have fewer competitors left in the field (which matters more for higher BIs with smaller fields).

That's similar to what fellow SSPLO posters tell me about why they refuse to run it twice; though it doesn't affect their EV directly, they see indirect benefits like making other regs tilt or building a deeper stack to cover weaker players. Ironically, I do have RIT on as a sign of courtesy, but that's because I don't think such benefits are significant in cash games where people aren't hurt much by refusals to run twice (as they don't affect the overall variance much), and there's no way I'd be able collect 'bribes' from opponents for turning RIT on.

Last edited by coon74; 10-01-2014 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:53 PM   #136
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Does anyone with PT4 have a HUD for these? I assume HUDs don't work with them yet, but just wanted to check I don't have an out of date version of PT4 or something. Thanks.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:08 PM   #137
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

HUD works for me
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:09 PM   #138
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

My support ticket is being considered; I was told to rebuild the DB cache, but this process was terminated with the same overflow error.

(Edit: I had jinxed myself, tried to play tonight, and postgres.exe started absorbing RAM like mad, so not only did import ever finish, but everything else was about to get hung It might have smth to do with some recent Titan (not iPoker-wide) changes, though.)

We need to have a bit of patience, they're usually quick with such fixes.

Last edited by coon74; 10-01-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:25 PM   #139
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Reading through that thread makes me kinda smile. So many people i never heared about... kinda convinces me to not chop with 99% or ask huge premium. Regs who grind out solid volume on these wont be too interested in this either unless they play against other (solid) regs...
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:45 PM   #140
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Hmm, I created a new DB, and the HUD did work well with Stars Spin & Gos. So I now have to test iPoker import separately to find out if it's the cause of the problem...

Edit: hmm, iPoker hands are being imported well too, but suddenly some hands disappeared from the 'Processed' folder to nowhere, probably because of some forced terminations by Task Manager...

Anyway, I now see no danger in using the PT4 HUD (starting from version 4.11.10) for Spins, it should be working fine.

Last edited by coon74; 10-01-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 07:37 PM   #141
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quadchrazs just hit the big one $3k for third place now we know his account is just lucky
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:20 PM   #142
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3 View Post
Maybe I should post this in the PokerTracker thread but I'll just ask here first; Is there a way to see what amount each "Spin and Go" was played for in the database?

I played 10 x $15 ones today and while my winnings all show the amount returned from the ones I won the losing ones all show minus $15.

I'd like to know the total amount I spun and played for in that sample. Anyone know how to accomplish that?
This is very important but I dont think its possible. Does the hh include the prize that actually came out? Anyone has an answer?
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:43 PM   #143
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

It includes the prize only if you've finished 1st or 2nd (in other words, if the info about who's won is known from the hands you've been dealt in).
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:08 PM   #144
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

only thing i don't like about this is imagine how many tourneys you have to play to spite call someone back at the 1,000x jackpot.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:59 PM   #145
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
It includes the prize only if you've finished 1st or 2nd (in other words, if the info about who's won is known from the hands you've been dealt in).
So it's impossible to track prize distribution?
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:05 PM   #146
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by DiSSaoR View Post
So it's impossible to track prize distribution?
You could manually do it in pt4/hem via editing tournaments, but that's probably too much of a hassle.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:07 PM   #147
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

why cant ps make the hh in a way that would allow prize tracking?
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:17 PM   #148
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

I imagine it's a relatively simple code change, definite suggestion for PS to consider pls
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:26 AM   #149
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

rake is too high for blind lobbies
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:13 AM   #150
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Baard

Been splashing around in these for a bit of fun, and I think there might be a small programming problem with them. After playing four or five, I regged for another one (cos they're addictive like crack ) and it sat me at an empty table and then just hung there without seating anyone else. I thought I'd leave it and see if it resolved itself, and so I fired up another one. Played the next one OK but the stuck one was still there unplayed nearly ten minutes later. I don't believe you were struggling for traffic in a brand new $1 SNG, so before I unregged I took a screen shot, if it helps you see anything and solve the glitch



You'll be able to use my screen name to check the time stamps from my playing history, try looking around 4am server time this morning (2nd Oct).


This isn't the first time it happened to me either, it's the second time. If you check back through my history for yesterday, or maybe Tuesday evening, I can't remember which, you'll find where I unregged another one of these for exactly the same reason.

Cheers
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