Hey guys

Forget rake, what percentage of ITM would you need to not be a loser?

Does anyone have some average spin numbers?

3 handed game so w/o rake 1/3 = 33.333% ITM is BE.

No idea what average spin number you mean. The average number of players in a spin is 3

Which site you guys think is the best to grind spin n go nowadays ? I played some on GG and the structure is way worse than PS,Is there any better site or should I just move to PS ?

If you want to play reg speeds only without antes then stars or party. Winamax if you are located where you can use them also. Imo gg is softer than stars but yeah they are mostly baby flashes.

So what is the best hud out there to buy for spins?

And also, as I didn't play for long time on sites where it is possible to use tracking software ,what is better nowdays- PT4 or H2N? And why?

Hello guys!Just want to warning you!
There is a guy from PS.com/EU lucianodayan offered me his GTOWiz license for 200$ i sent him throught PS and he didnt reply since. He posted from SP discord, then some SP members told me he is a scammer.
Take care guys !!!

WTF... Does HEM3 calculate CEV correctly? is this **** normal?

Yes, it's normal, that what variance does, had 300 000 chips EV difference myself in much shorter time than you.

Unless this is hs flashes you should focus on the fact that you are horrible.

Hi, I've been away from online poker for a long time but I've stumbled across these spin and go's which I'm really enjoying and seem to be holding my own at the minute in the $1 games, albeit over a very small sample size.

I still have a reasonable poker knowledge from playing live as well as a couple of million cash game hands back in the day and have been considering having a go at taking Spin & Go's semi-seriously.

I had a couple of questions for anyone that doesn't mind sparing a minute to answer...

Where can I find comprehensive pre flop ranges for Spin & Go's?
Any tips on the best way to memorize these pre flop ranges?
What software would you recommend using?
What are the best resources or training materials specifically for Spin & Go's?

Hey,

Nice questions.

We provide free of charge pre flop ranges in our discord server. I do not believe i am able to post the link here, but it is easy enough to find so you are more than welcome to join. It is free

Charts are a guideline, so having a baseline memory of these is always good, you could start by taking a look at them for 10-15 minutes as a warm up to your session, over time this will compound to provide a muscle memory whereby you start to have an automated idea of what the "Charts" would do in this position, stack depth etc. You can then work on your exploits and adaptions as your experience grows so your new decisions would be whether or not to stick to the chart generalisation in this specific scenario or whether you have an adaption you can make vs this opponent to generate an increased EV line etc. Slow and steady wins the race

Software at the early stakes could be literally limited to tracking, so H2N/PT4. You do not necessarily need to look into the world of solvers at the moment as this can confuse and also is not the most +EV lines to be taking in the early stakes as your field will be more recreational based. Tools like Equilab, flopzilla, Holdem resources calculator can also be great additions but you need to have an understanding of population ranges to utilise these correctly

Training options we also have, especially our fundamentals package which shows how to play each position in Spins etc. Great option to build a solid baseline

Hope to see you in the discord, either way GL at the tables and continue to post your questions here. Plenty of people will be happy to provide advices

Thanks man, I don't tend to use Discord much but have signed up and taking a look, I'm struggling to find the preflop ranges from the search bar TBH but I've found a few online which seem to suggest opening ranges for BTN and SB are fairly similar (top ~35%)?

Assuming that's true I'm going to memorise and use these ranges for now from BTN & SB whilst I work out other ranges.



I had a subscription to HEM2 and Tableninja back in the day and have downloaded Pokerstove again, I'll have a look into H2N as that seems to be the modern favourite from what I've read.

I do have another question regarding long term earning potential. If I'm going to dedicate a lot of time into learning this format, I would need to have a reasonable earning potential of at least $10 - $15 PH within a couple of years. Is it common for people to earn this and more from Sit & Go's and if so what stakes and number of tables would usually be required to average $15 or more PH with a realistic ROI?

On that point, is it much harder to earn a side wage with Sit & Go's in comparison to cash games & tourneys etc?

Thanks

Top 35-40% is accurate enough for a BTN opening range. You can adjust this based on your opponents once you get reads etc.

I popped you a DM in the discord with the charts.

In response to your question $10-15 is more than achievable and this can be done at the lower end of the stakes. like $5-10 stakes can exceed these requirements but it is not necessarily a super simple format to learn. It takes time like anything to increase your knowledge and hone your skills. Mindset is an incredibly underrated factor in this format too. The variance can be huge, so you need to ensure you can remain calm under pressure and seperate your decision making from real money outcomes where possible.

It is like everything, you have to start somewhere

That's great, thanks for that, that really is a comprehensive list of charts!

I've saved the folder to my desktop and started looking at breaking it down into manageable chunks. I really like the way you've organised it to make it easy to understand.

I can agree with that. I always thought I kinda had the mental side of the game under wraps but when I tried moving up from 25NL to 50NL I ran really bad, moved back to 25NL and couldn't beat that anymore, dropped to 10NL and couldn't beat that either. I ended up struggling to beat 5NL for a bit before giving up on the grind. I'm not sure exactly what went wrong but I think your mindset can affect you in ways you don't even realise or understand.

My Discord isn't letting me post at the moment due to verification issues but I'll hopefully join you there some time

I made a video pack just a couple of years back: https://husng.com/content/spin-and-go-strategy-2021

I poured my heart and soul into trying to make as comprehensive, yet in-depth of a guide as I could. It ended up really long, that's for sure :-D It's a video pack I'm proud I made so I encourage you to take a look.

Thanks, coffee, TBH I'm still at the stage where I'm working out what route I want to go down at the minute. Right now I'm planning on starting with Spin & Go's to get a good grasp on short handed play before moving to MTT's for the easier money but that could all change. I'm going to be buying the software 1st such as H2N and probably a solver and take it from there but I'm sure your videos are great so I'll keep them in mind for the future.

Decided to get back into Spins this week - was off for a year playing cash games. I did quite well there at NL50 but for the foreseeable future I will not be able to seriously multi-table - playing TAG on 1 table is too boring for me so back I have come to spins.

I used to play a mix of $5 and $10 spins on Stars with a CEV of between 35-40. Currently playing $10 on stars and having a lot of fun and killing it. I know it is a small sample size but over 500 tourneys I’ve managed to make 86 CEV. Normally I would not be confident from such a small sample size but I am finding the player pool is very weak! I guess we will see if I can maintain it!

Well played. I'm considering which route to go down myself at the moment and just curious as to why you choose spins over MTT's and if you think you'd have a significantly higher earning potential if you were to grind MTT's instead?

I used to play a lot of cash games (mainly zoom) back in the day and am now looking to have a crack at tourneys instead. I do actually really enjoy the Spin and Go's on Pokerstars but I'm concerned that it may be difficult to earn a decent hourly rate as I've read that the rake and bots make earning a decent hourly rate harder on Spin and Go's, I'm not sure how true this is.

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks again for the pre flop charts, they are incredibly useful for me trying to learn the format and they're really simple to understand as well.

I've found a way to make learning them easier by memorizing the top hand ranges on pokerstove by % of hands (eg top 5%, top 10%, top 15% etc) I can then get a good idea of how to play from each position then all I need to know is the raise / call / fold percentages in each circumstance, write them all down on a spreadsheet and I can quickly look that up whenever I'm not sure what to do with a hand in a certain pre flop position.

Example: HU20BB BBvsMR - Raise 5% Call 80% - I was probably folding about 50% of hands from this position before looking at this chart and making various mistakes from other positions too so this has helped a lot.

It's not an exact science but it's helping me to learn a good ballpark understanding of the ranges in each circumstance.

I've been running well this month playing just 1 table while I'm learning I'm running at 18BB/100 over 513 tournaments, mostly at $1 and $2. I was surprised to see that it was that high and assumed that I was running hot but my red line is pretty consistent and my all in EV line is showing as slightly higher than my actual winrate so I guess there's a small possibility that I'm actually playing quite well lol.

Do you think 18BB/100 is a sustainable winrate at the lower stakes for a lot of players or is that likely too high to be sustainable over a decent sample size for somebody who's not particularly experienced?

I've got my account issues sorted with discord now so I'll have a little look and see if I can contribute to the discussion at all over there.

Correction: I stated that I play on Stars but I really play on Party!


I've never been a big fan of MTT's. I've done quite well with them, I think I have cashed in 50% of all the tournaments I have played in (which isn't many). I just don't like the format. I don't like sitting for 3 hours + only to lose everything to a bad beat.. I've gone back to spins because I have a lot of experience with the format and I like the fast pace. I dont have as much time to play right now and I can only 1-2 tables max. Spins gives a lot of action for me!

I can't give any details about profitability. I used to know the math behind CEV and ROI with rake etc. but I cannot remember. I was told that a CEV of 30 on Party is pretty good because of the rake-back. All I can say is that there is a tremendous number of recs playing spins who will call down 3 streets with bottom pair!

Yeah, they are genuinely fun to play and I do really like being able to jump in and out of them as and when you feel like it. I'm not actually sure how to calculate my CEV TBH. My winrate is 18BB/100 right now over 500 tourneys at $1/$2 with my yellow line slightly higher than my green line but I have a feeling that isn't going to be sustainable over the long run.

I want to learn these anyway so I guess I'll just keep playing for now, learn as much as I can and worry about whether or not there's much benefit in converting to MTT's later.

They are fun, fast and really soft. I don't calculate CEV, I let Poker Tracker 4 do it for me. If you don't understand CEV - it is the portion of the pot that you were entitled to based on the equity of your hand. If you win a pot of 100 in which you had 60% equity, your CEV would be 60% of 100 - so you won 100 but only deserved to win 60. In that case your green line would be north of your yellow line.

Well, spins are good practice for the late stages of tournaments since they become essentially shove-fold below 10bb.

I've been on a pretty incredible run tonight - at least in regards to CEV: I've managed an all-in adjusted equity of 4253 over 20 games for a CEV of ~200. Unfortunately it has not translated into a big win - I think I'm up like $10 or something.

Main thing in spins to have a short memory. You are going to win a lot of games you shouldn't have, and you will lose a bunch you should win. Stay level - try to assess your play by CEV over a significant number of games.

But, of course, if you can't handle variance stay away from spins. Eg. over my last 60 games I am running about ~80 CEV and have lost 20 buyins...

** Mods please let me know if this is not allowed to be posted here**

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So after about 350 tournaments I am running at about 70 CEV. Unfortunately, like always for me, I am running massively below EV. God - every format I play I am significantly below EV!

So far today, 132 tournaments in, I am running ~45 CEV and am down 27 buy-ins and I am running 9000 chips below EV. Ultimately this is why I left Spins in the first place I wanted to make money and Spins are just too unpredictable. Cash games brought in a much more stable and steady flow cash.