I have observed something quite interesting imho in wina 5s spins.

not often but in about 1k games seen five or couple more players who crush those games with 10-15% ROI over 5-20k games
and all of them have rather low monthly/yearly volume. many with just 3-5k games a year and many months zero play at all thruout the year
none of them play any other games or limits. some have 2s and then mostly 5s and seen one who has 5k sample in 5s and over 10k sample in 10s both stakes with 10%+ ROI
all well adjusted to play vs weak player and capable of playing much more close to GTO at least preflop vs regs.

when i do see them i never get another game with them that session.

It is interesting because with such a good game from at least my pow id see much more games yearly especially since only game they play is spins an nothing else.
i guess they might be playing cash games actually, don't know where to look up wina cash tracking

linecheck

do we want to barrel turn?
what about river, bet smaller?


Hero (BTN): 24.5 BB
SB: 23 BB
BB: 27.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (4.5 BB, 2 players) 8 6 Q
BB checks, Hero bets 1.5 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Turn: (7.5 BB, 2 players) Q
BB checks, Hero bets 4.05 BB, BB calls 4.05 BB

River: (15.6 BB, 2 players) 3
BB checks, Hero bets 5.15 BB

SB: 30 BB
Hero (BB): 23.5 BB
BTN: 21.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q T

fold, SB raises to 2 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (4 BB, 2 players) T 8 6
SB bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 3.5 BB, SB raises to 8.5 BB

call and possibly go broke on safe turns or fold on the flop?

1st hand would bet bigger otr not smaller. Barreling turn most of the time. 2nd might even fold the flop honestly. That flop 3bet is so weird villain shouldn't be ever doing that in theory. If villain bets the strd size instead of the minbet I'm either calling or jamming. This is so weird and screams strong hand. Shouldn't be minraising these stacks in pe either imo.

On a side note winamax used to have huge cartels back in the hu sngs and I believe some of them moved to spins. It might be they are from some stable and for some reason only play small volume to not get caught.

with KK hand i feel like betting bigger otr will not get many alls from 8x and 6x.
i think most of 6x will fold and something like J8+ perhaps finds a call.

PokerStars, $0.92 + $0.08 - Hold'em No Limit - 20/40 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

SB (Hero): 830 (21 bb)
BB: 670 (17 bb)

Pre-Flop: (60) Hero is SB with 3 7
Hero calls 20, BB checks

Flop: (80) 9 2 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 40, BB calls 40

Turn: (160) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ??

Is this good spot to double barrel?

Yes its good spot to barrel.
But with this hand you can barrel pretty much any turn, only bad turns are 2x and 6x

Flop is close to a pure check here. Turn is allso basically a pure check. If we bet the flop we go pot or overbet. In theory but in 1$ games betting untill told otherwise might a good solution.

If you bluff in that spot what sizing do you use? In theory that spot is a jam or check. Small bet is never a bluff from villains pov and he should be folding the hands you are targeting to get called by.

You are right vs thinking player.
however in lowest stakes even regulars there are simply unable to fold their 2nd pairs and too often look up even tho they know that there will be few bluffs.

in terms of exploit i think its reasonable to approach it this way but i will look more into it
thanks

You are right vs thinking player.
however in lowest stakes even regulars there are simply unable to fold their 2nd pairs and too often look up even tho they know that there will be few bluffs.

in terms of exploit i think its reasonable to approach it this way but i will look more into it
thanks

Guys, due to changes in Greek taxation laws, I am trying a switch to spin and gos. I am playing $2 and $5 ones and I hope to be switching to $10 ones.

Questions:

1. What is a good enough cev per tournament and all-in adjusted bb/100? Right now after 25-30k hands, I am hovering at 50cev and 8 bb/100.

Based on what I 've come across through googling, I should be aiming at 75 cev if I want to move up. Is this still true in today's games? I haven't been able to find an overall bb/100 number I should be aiming.

2. More to the point, although my EVROI is at 1-2%, my actual ROI is at -8%. This is just killing me. How many hands to I need to play before those stats start converging?

3. Also how many BI should I have as my BR based on my stats?

Thank you

play 5k+ spins at 2s/5s and try get better cev than 50
have a br of 100bi+

Morning Leviathan74,

Focus on CEV when it comes to spins, work out the break even number and look to achieve above this. It will take some time to find the correct strategy for spins, but hard work and consistency will get you there

The variance in spins can be quite brutal and therefore would recommend you to be overly cautious where possible when it comes to bankroll. You could also even look into the option of Joining an EV POOL.

Best of luck with your journey and goals

Thanks guys. I also just saw the other thread about the guy who wanted to move to $5 spins, so I guess my cEV isn't far off from where it should be. The good thing is that my ranges so far have been my MTT ranges which assume antes, so I think that by adjusting them to no ante games, there are low hanging fruit I can fix.

But from what I understand 60 cev should be the max goal at the current environment I guess.

why cuat69usdsng is playing at stars? He was banned for few years...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aiQjxoER4Q

Does anyone else sometimes have games not starting on the party spins? happens perhaps one in a few hundred games. Just wondering if its a software error or on my end.

Hey,

This has happened only a hand full of times for me, but whenever it has, if the money has been deducted and not kicked back into the balance PP support have always sorted.

There live chat have always been good

GL @ the tables

After 3 years him and some other Smartspinners who got banned were allowed to appeal their bans. So if they got unbanned it is because Pokerstars have forgiven them for their mistakes and trust that they have changed their unethical ways. Hopefully Stars made a good decision. In my experience Stars tends to make good decisions.

1- 25k hands or tournaments? Tournaments is what matters.

2- I've stopped keeping track of my actual roi or my actual chips won. I try to ignore the green line in my chart because it will either give you a false sense of success or a false sense of failure...All that really maters is your EV line divide by the # of tournaments.

3- Most suggest 100BI. I went with less and was able to build it up - but there was a chance I would lose it all in a big downturn.

Hey all, got back into spins a few months back and things have been going quite well, other than a few big downturns here and there. Figured I would share my chart so far for April. So far I'm at a an EV of about 44,000 though 587 tournaments for a CEV of 75 @ $10 spins on Party Poker.



Things have been going quite well as my chips won is catching up to my EV. The only issue I have is that I can't seem to win anything but $20 and $30 games. I'm probably like 20% on the $50 and $100 games.

Should I make anything of the negative red, "chips won without showdown" line? Do I have a big leak there or is that just a byproduct of the high "chips won at showdown" line. I guess I could bluff a bit more or raise my more marginal made hands to get bluffs, but I seem to do quite well at getting opponents to give me their money with worse hands!

What is wrong with the min raise at ~20bb?

I agree it smacks of a strong hand. While it is unlikely that he has pocket 10s bc hero blocks it, he could certainly have a super strong hand like a set of 6’s or 8’s, and could have flopped a straight with 97 and just wants to get the money in with with the flush draw out there...

It’s unlikely that dude is bluffing when he jams the check raise. I mean, there have been times where I have done it - like I make a stab at the flop repping I hit the ace, get check raised and jam the raise - but that is very player dependent and I don’t think it’s a common move. But it’s hard to fold top pair with a strong kicker!

Ok, after a month of serious volume in, here are some of my thoughts.

1. Still moderately competitive at $5 Spin and Gos, but I have so many leaks it's not even funny. Still haven't figured out my PF ranges, still a ton of postflop spots I am unsure of, still no good handle of what pop tendencies are.

2. I have a decent handle on who the regs are, mostly because after playing for a while, you get to encounter certain screen names more than others. But it's tough to understand a reg just by HUD stats after a few hands like in an MTT. VPP/PFR stats change so much depending on whether it's 2 handed or 3 handed and I think people play different stack depths somewhat differently, so it's not easy for me to understand who is who.

3. This is compounded by certain wtf plays I see in which I am not sure whether villain doesn't know what he's doing or whether I am way behind.

4. Still haven't figured out the most optimal playing arrangement. Do I play a set of x # of games till completion, or do I try maintaining a number of tables regardless Since a big part of my strategy for these games is generating rakeback, I want to do as much volume as possible, but there's a tradeoff between volume and win rate.

Hey @ Leviathan74

Nice post.

1) The field generally is getting more competitive, so it does make sense you are finding moderate competition within the pool. Pre flop ranges are incredibly important, a solid foundation is a must to do well in this format. You need to ensure you are going post with the correct hands, in relation to the stack depth, position and opposition. This will come in time, there is various tools out there such as Holdem resources calculator which can help.

2) HUD interpretation is important vs regular, but a decent sample is also needed. You do not want to over adjust vs small sample sizes as it could easily be card distribution variance etc. Have some weight on the stats before you try to interpret. For me, i would argue this is not as important as point 1 you raised to start. Focus your attention there.

3) WTF plays exist at all stakes, whilst they look random, sometimes they could be a solver play. ( Not so likely at the 5s tbf, it could just be total randomness) You have to remember its a game played by humans and therefore emotional factors could also come in to play. You can note these plays, but once again, carefull how much weight you put towards these.

4) It does not make sense to grind for rakeback at the $5 level. You would be alot better reducing your tables and becoming better at the format. You will earn alot more money increasing your CEV, than you will by increasing your rakeback earnings.

The most important thing in Spins is the fundamentals, Pre flop ranges, post flop tendancies such as board structures to CBET, how to change your style vs different opponents, how to understand weighted HUD stats etc, all these things are really difficult to improve on if you are playing too many tables. 1-2 tables is completely fine in the early days whilst your honing your skills, any more than this and you are likely leaving CEV on the table with every spin you play.

Good luck with your journey and keep us posted

Hey guys,
What is a real value of Avg PF all-in Equity in the long run spin&go?

there was an update on stars today.

now the prize of the spin is displayed in the top middle, its quite distracting, any way to get rid of it? this is what is looks like: