Yes, about 2 weeks ago, the multipliers were changed to 2x-3x-5x-10x-... at all the permanent buy-in levels.

Is this thread only concerning stars spin and goes or party spins as well?



I only play low stakes spins on stars and tried some on party. But does anyone here notice the skill level at partypoker is much better than on stars?



Are there bots at spins on party even at the low stakes? The players on party seem to be much better than on stars.

The answer is quite simple - rakeback. Higher rakeback sites always had tougher fields + regs play bigger volume/more tables making fish-reg ratio even worse

Hey guys, I'm posting here cause I can't open a thread. What the hell is going on with pokerstars support? I asked them for my HH and 3 weeks have passed already and I don't have them still. They have problems on almost all categories with the reply time. Did they fired their support crew or what? Thanks!

Does anyone know how to import hands for 888 blast sngs? I don't seem to be able to do it in HM2.

Yeah, they've been shite for a while now. Probably cutting costs or something, seems like a Stars move to make.

Edit: sending them a msg on Twitter helped me get ahead of the queue, fwiw.

What can I say? More rake is better for them too. The results are starting to appear. They will milk this fat cow till nothing will remain. They started to charge us romanians 2% administration fee on every deposit. The future is so bright for pokerstars clients...

Guys, any idea if it`s possible to change Skrills ref? Seems like Harry from cashtag.net disappeared.

Hi,

I know this i my first post, but i follow this websites for years.

Where to begin i started poker back at college to earn an extra buck 11 years ago when poker was booming.

I have to admit that the thrill and challenge and the money was very motivating to keep on playing, i can say this has become a passion for a while.

These were the golden periods, since then a lot has happened that undermined the transparancy and reputation of the online world.

But what i have red lately about cheating stables is absolutely not acceptable and disgusting.

So basically lets name one of them, the most famous of all: Smartspin

Half of that stable got banned for breaking the TOS or for cheating and this stable is still allowed to recruit players from the stars players pools?

The marketing they employed is a prime example how they are accelerating the demise of the industry.

How can stars tolerate this scam (profit of course)

Every stake i have played stable members are represented, and this year it seems that if your not in a stable u can not keep up with the latest changes in spins.

I have won at poker 11 years doing it all by just myself. Now i feel that the game has never been this hard, while the last years that tendency was being obvious.

I have my first year of those 11 years where after 8 months i am still not even profitable, comparing with the 30k i took last year in spins this is very surprising for me.

Also regs keep popping up from nowhere from those stables and seem to very fastly understand the game while it took me 4 years of Spin and go to become a very decent regular, nowadays i have the feeling i am just average.

I had to move down from 100s to 15s in a matter of months, went more than one time broke and it's very hard to rebuild a bankroll nowadays in spins.

I can blame a part of these results on myself or just swings but for me the mean reason of this drop is because of stables, hyper advanced HUDs and solvers.

How can the market and the players accept this kind of unfair advantage.

I am getting sick seeing how my beloved game has slided into MAFIA practices.

Why does these stables always try to get an unfair advantage while they already have the tools to keep on improving their strategies?

There have been massive scandals lately about those scumbags litteraly cheating, and i never received a penny in reimboursement from Stars, while i can literally sum up at least 50 of these scumbags that i played constantly against.

I think it's time for a drastic change in the industry, all those tools that give u an unfair advantage, and stables with all the money in the world has to stop.

I am not from Eastern Europe so i never tried to make a carreer of poker as in Western Europe we have higher standards in salary and welfare.

One of the main problem online poker has became so hard is because everyone can open a stable with a decent record. Where are the times when stables basically didn't exist.

Now everyone can apply to that scumstable even with bad results.

Why learn the game to depositors ? It's one of the main causes poker has become so hard, because fools learn the strategies to others.

Away with stables (max 4-5 players), only the best should be able to aply and stay.

Away with trackers where u have 100 of numbers allowing u to base ur decision.

In my country poker is regulated, but they d'ont have a clue about all this, and how new players are getting utterly crushed by semi bot cheater stables.

I curse those stables, poker isn't enjoyable anymore since they have taken over every single format out there. There is even a 15s hu cartel, how ridicilous is that.

I will claim to stars, if anyone can help me get a full list of all the banned smartspinmembers or from any other stable.

If i can't make a buck anymore after crushing the game for a decade, than i can trully say this game has come at the end of it 's life cycle.

Sorry for grammatical errors, English is not my main language.

Regards to the independent players outhere and a very big middle finger to stable members.

Well if they were banned, then Stars is not tolerating them.

As far as the golden years, there's more money today in HUSNGs than 11 years ago. And that's not even factoring Spin potential (wasn't around 11 years ago).

That said, there were better years than current, if you said you came up like 7 or 8 years ago and enjoyed a few great years and "screw this climate" you'd still be hit with a pic of an old guy raising his fist at those "young kids" but you'd have a stronger point about the general profit potential/climate.

In any case, cheaters should always be banned/punished. Stars in particular seems to attack cheaters in HUSNGs/Spins pretty aggressively.

Noone is stopping you from studying, using solvers, huds as other do. You are not entitled to win and why would others give up their edge just for you to be more profitable. And why would businesses (stables) stop recruiting players and give up their profits.

As ChicagoRy said before there were no spins at all. And look at mtts 5 years ago, I am not sure if there were any daily 500$+ buyins and now you can find daily 500-1ks+ on almost everysite. But in order to play those you have to put a ton of work. Welcome to real life, where you actually have to do something to earn money

Well as the guy above told you,no one is stopping you from studying the game from the GTO aspect using solvers and advanced huds to track your leaks and the leaks of your opponents.
No one is stopping you to join a stable where guys that are far better than you at the game will teach you a stuff or two about the games today,and how to maximize your EV and profits in today's pools!
Now,botting yourself up the stakes just because someone is using illegal software is not the right thing to deal with things but I think you get the concept.

Unfortunately it is 2k19,and to earn a buck or two more you have to be qualified,not only in poker but in every aspect of your life,whether your pursuits are professional ones or athletic,it seems that nowadays everything has become more difficult.
Even fish are playing better today!

So,I think you shouldn't blame other for your losses but I think you should look in the mirror and your answer will be revealed to you about who makes the mistakes here!
If top players knew that the games they play will stay the same and never evolve,they all would have been more balanced in every aspect of their lives,instead of playing and studying tons.

I hope i've been helpful!
Have a good one!

So guys, i'm kinda new to poker, i've tried a few formats, and so far cash games and spin & go are my favorite, so i decided to put some effort and learn the game.

I'm currently playing $.25/$1 spins to learn, and in the .25 i'm sitting at 8ish% roi / 37ish% ITM (win rate), with 65ish chip ev (in 1320~ spins so far).

I was reading some posts, and i noticed that my red line is REALLY low (as you can see on the ss), is that a big problem?

I'm winning so far (or maybe its the variance?), and i think i'm beating at least this limit (my chip ev is pretty "constant" so far, it goes between 60-75 over sessions), even tho the sample is not big.

What i'm possibly doing wrong with that red line and what can i fix, in general terms in my game if i need to correct it?

Currently i only gave a few shots at $1 (150 spins). I'm thinking about going up limits to $1 and then $3 as soon as i reach 3k torneys at each limit, if i'm winning/my chip ev remains good, is that an enough sample?

https://imgur.com/fEkFzWX

I think in low stakes especially the red line shouldn't be something you care about too much but normally it could indicate some leaks like too low vpip in some positions or floating on the flop folding turn too much etc.

for moving up from the lowest stakes it would depend mostly on bankroll for me I wouldnt want to grind 3k games at $1 when the $3 games should be pretty similar skill wise and not many regs there.

In my all games of spin and go which are in 0.25$,1$,3$,5$ my Ev Roi /chips per game is much higher than my actual winning=mongo format.I have between 4-10% evroi and my actual ROI is between -2 to 4% at max so unless you hit some miracle jackpot its losing even against big fishesh i mean losing time since your winning at this levels are dissaster hourly.I have between 70-110 chips per game and im breakeven at them ,not huge sample but still ....

Mid-term you'll probably run about 1.5% under your cev due to multiplier variance, but you won't be like 5-10%+ under evroi in decent samples.

Anyway i dont understand why the rake of spins is that high and how the people play 250,500,1000s with 5% rake no rakeback when the rake should be around 2-3% range at max ...not that the rake of lower levels is good enough i think if they make it 10% for all spins idiots will still play it.

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 23 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (SB): 28 BB
BB: 24 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A T

BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, BTN raises to 23 BB and is all-in, Hero???

If you're sitting on SB, you don't want to play pot without position vs 2 players with any Ax , myabe some Ax siuted. Its easy AI pre flop.

I totally agree it is not fair at all !

Its insane how the rake on 100$ and 1000$ is the same %. And how that the game evolved so much is ignored by stars. But all the regs being break even is the sweetspot for stars.

Actualy I tried to organize the regs from the highest stakes while I was active there. But appearantly most guys just ignore such things even on the high stakes.

I made a group of 16 people in skype. Here is one of my first messeges on why should the reake be lower. Showrtly the edges are much smaller and regs has no intendtion to actualy play high stakes when the only thing it increases is their varriance,

29.01.2019
"First here is why I think rake should be 3 or 4% at 500+.
500$ spins were introduced as a part of the highroller series back in the end of 2017. They were planed to run for a week as part of the series. And maybe Stars wanted to test what interest players would have in them. The interest was amazing. And they decided just to leave them. They lunched them with 5% rake. Usually all their promo spins have 1% rake upper than the normal.
But also lets check how the rake goes up in the limits:
Stake Rake Specifics
<3$ 8% Weakest players. Many people just testing the software and going allin every hand.
7$ 7% Mostly recreationals. Still a lot more people actualy interested into winning the game.
15$ 6% First proffesionals probably start to appear here. And players from poker stables.
30$ 6% Probably twice as much regulars. But still around 66-70% recreational players.
60$ 5% One of the biggest jumps in the stakes ladder. With around 50%+ reg ratio. And many competent players.
100$ 5% Same reg to fish ratio. Only difference might be slightly better regulars.
500$ 5% 5 times bigger buy-in. Way worse fish to reg ratio. The best regulars. Not many if some weak regulars, Some of the unknown players are actualy mtt or cash beasts.
1000$ 5% slightly harder

So when I look at the numbers. I can easily see how stas decreases the rake when the level is harder than the one below. Which is smart to keep the ecosystem balanced. I am sure they did some analysis and math to find the best rake %.
A big sign for that is how they change the rake from 30 to 60. But they keep it at 5% at 60 and 100.
But I dont believe they did that when they lunched the 500s. Because it was just a test. And the action actualy keeped running forever.
But the population on the stake continued to change dynamicly, With many unprepared regulars shooting for the nosebleeds. Stables promoting players to take control on the limit without much understanding of the spesifics of the limit driven by the FOMO effect, And many rich fishes donating having interest in the format.
The games at the moment are completly diffrent than a year ago. Mostly diffrent regs. And mostly better. Because of the 1 year of active studying with modern solvers and stuff.
So basicly I think the gap between 100 and 500 is huge enough and the rake needs to be 4% or lower. For example at party it goes down to 4% at 250$. Mostly bots grinding anyways. But they have many bots at 100$ too."

I dont think those numbers are (have been) close at all. There is plenty of stable regs at 7$ and even lower than that. 70% recs at 30s is also far away from the truth. Even at 15s you have more regs. If those numbers were accurate there wouldnt be a problem with the rake imo.

Hey, I think they are accurate enough for the most regulars. Ofcourse it depends on the time and day. But if you have statistical analyses maybe you can prove me wrong.
I am not sure If you were around the spinlyzer era, but they had all those statistics and numbers and ratio was even better than what I wrote back than.

Yes, most stables start their players on 7$. Obv the weakest stay here for long, but they have at least a basic strategy preflop and rule of thumb based postflop (you always check 2nd pair 3rd kicker down when could cbet, or you fold anything to turn raises other than 2p+ or fd if getting good odds, or playing every fd aggressively etc). While these set of rules their play is probably very suboptimal, its definetly better strategy than these players could come up with on their own.


I think SPinlegends have players <7$ as well.

Haven't followed this thread much, so apologies if this has been asked recently -- What effect does the change in multiplier frequency have on potential winrates, variance, etc?

I guess lower variance and the same winrates long term.