Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2019, 02:06 AM   #6951
jinjerjohn
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 202
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

After reading abarone and the posts about smartspin above I started thinking about what could be the answer.

Could a term be added by PokerStars that you have to notify them if you join a cosching/staking site and then they could monitor the tables to see who is avoiding who and impose punishments accordingly?

With the size of some of these stables some player(s) will obviously fall out with the stable and be willing to out players helping to keep players and stables honest.

Maybe PokerStars says stables are allowed but have to email them lists weekly of everyone they stake/coach so they can monitor the spins registration process. Stables found "cheating" risk getting all their players punished.

Harsh times call for harsh solutions.
jinjerjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 06:08 AM   #6952
tittenmaus69
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 21
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

a good algorithmus could do the work. it could compare all players vs all players with playtime and i think even after couple hundreds of games, it should be obv when players never play against each other in the same grindtime. i hope stars has something like this already set up.
tittenmaus69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 02:57 PM   #6953
WateryBoil
Pooh-Bah
 
WateryBoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: And mine are long and sharp my Lord
Posts: 4,754
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

i think its not so much that its obvious they are doing it, or you could create something that would reveal it, but that stars just doesnt care. its not technically illegal like they said. thats the sad part.
WateryBoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 04:27 PM   #6954
beet
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 133
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinjerjohn View Post
After reading abarone and the posts about smartspin above I started thinking about what could be the answer.

Could a term be added by PokerStars that you have to notify them if you join a cosching/staking site and then they could monitor the tables to see who is avoiding who and impose punishments accordingly?

With the size of some of these stables some player(s) will obviously fall out with the stable and be willing to out players helping to keep players and stables honest.

Maybe PokerStars says stables are allowed but have to email them lists weekly of everyone they stake/coach so they can monitor the spins registration process. Stables found "cheating" risk getting all their players punished.

Harsh times call for harsh solutions.
You wouldn't even necessarily need people to disclose their relationship to backers if they are sending transfers on stars.

2 players playing the same games at the same time, who are never seated together while both receiving transfers from the same backers would be enough to connect them and see there is something happening off the tables.
beet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 06:20 PM   #6955
watergun7
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,762
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
i think its not so much that its obvious they are doing it, or you could create something that would reveal it, but that stars just doesnt care. its not technically illegal like they said. thats the sad part.
No. Who are "they"?

Quote:
The following types of tools and services are prohibited:

...

Any tool or service that is targeted towards the manipulation of opponents in games in which you are unable to choose a specific table to play on, such as Spin & Go’s
From https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ under "In general, what kinds of tools and services are prohibited?"
watergun7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 03:34 PM   #6956
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,011
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by beet View Post
You wouldn't even necessarily need people to disclose their relationship to backers if they are sending transfers on stars.

2 players playing the same games at the same time, who are never seated together while both receiving transfers from the same backers would be enough to connect them and see there is something happening off the tables.
In the short term, yes. In the long term, many will just do transfers off site, and just use deposit/cashout options, so Stars would only see people depositing and cashing out as normal.

There are probably other solutions worth considering, but p2p patterns (which are obviously used now by security at times to help investigations) are not a long term reliable way to fully identify relationships.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:38 PM   #6957
PaulyJames200x
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,325
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

A lot has been mentioned about cev here. So that term and thus the number would tell if you are a winning player or losing player correct? If so, how do i find out what my number is? I use Holdem manager 2.


Someone also mention it should be so and so for a particular stake such as this number is good for 7s but now 30s?


So does this mean in holdem manager 2, looking at your bb/100 in stack size is completely useless for spin and go?
PaulyJames200x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:45 PM   #6958
PaulyJames200x
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,325
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

On a related topic. Is there any pro/con on playing spin and goes on stars vs party since they have pretty much the same stakes?
PaulyJames200x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2019, 02:35 AM   #6959
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,011
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

What level? Stars is widely accepted as being better at catching cheaters. At the low stakes it's likely plenty soft too.

Mid to higher stakes might have other considerations (playerpool skill for Stars, playerpool availability for Party).
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2019, 12:57 PM   #6960
evcrusher
newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 26
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Is there any point in contacting winamax and reporting the obvious expresso bots? I mean they basically MUST be aware.
evcrusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2019, 04:42 PM   #6961
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,011
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by evcrusher View Post
Is there any point in contacting winamax and reporting the obvious expresso bots? I mean they basically MUST be aware.
Absolutely. Rarely do sites actually like the bots, but most sites underinvest in security, so they will use their resources based on a few factors, one being how many people are complaining about something.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2019, 11:52 PM   #6962
GTExploit
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinjerjohn View Post
After reading abarone and the posts about smartspin above I started thinking about what could be the answer.

Could a term be added by PokerStars that you have to notify them if you join a cosching/staking site and then they could monitor the tables to see who is avoiding who and impose punishments accordingly?

With the size of some of these stables some player(s) will obviously fall out with the stable and be willing to out players helping to keep players and stables honest.

Maybe PokerStars says stables are allowed but have to email them lists weekly of everyone they stake/coach so they can monitor the spins registration process. Stables found "cheating" risk getting all their players punished.

Harsh times call for harsh solutions.
Agreed that something should be done, but didnt most of these guys in stables join for coaching and financial backing and not because they wanted to cheat? Maybe they only started to cheat because their stablemasters told them to and they had to follow orders. Maybe the stablemasters even told the horse they are allowed to do such cheating as queue system and collusion using excuses that others are also doing it? Many of them are not allowed to leave because of the length of their ridiculous contracts that can easily take over 2 years to complete. Are you sure just banning everyone inside a stable just for being a part of it is a solution? I dont know if ruining many poker players careers because their greedy stablemasters just wanted all the money and are fine with their horse cheating is the solution.
GTExploit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:06 AM   #6963
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,011
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

GTExploit, there is no way you can excuse players for cheating because their backer told them to cheat or others in their group are cheating.

Most non backing situational cheating also takes place in group form, people building illegal software, illegal queing, it all requires more than one person in almost every case to participate.

A backing contract is also no excuse. Even in a regular job with a very clear, standard contract, your boss telling you to do something illegal isn't an excuse and doesn't absolve you from blame.

You're right about people being greedy, but for some reason you're excusing one of the main parties to the cheating.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:57 AM   #6964
GTExploit
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
GTExploit, there is no way you can excuse players for cheating because their backer told them to cheat or others in their group are cheating.

Most non backing situational cheating also takes place in group form, people building illegal software, illegal queing, it all requires more than one person in almost every case to participate.

A backing contract is also no excuse. Even in a regular job with a very clear, standard contract, your boss telling you to do something illegal isn't an excuse and doesn't absolve you from blame.

You're right about people being greedy, but for some reason you're excusing one of the main parties to the cheating.
Agreed. But in some situations there are people in stables who did not do anything wrong but got banned simply for affiliation to the stable or such groups of people. If somebody actually cheats in some way, then they absolutely must be banned because they knew what they were doing and must face the consequences. But if somebody does not cheat but they get banned anyways because someone else or another group of people in the same stable was found cheating, that is not fair to those “innocent” players in my opinion. This is what I meant by saying that banning everybody in a stable for a few people’s actions seems unfair, which some people here have suggested as the solution.
GTExploit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:08 PM   #6965
youngdaggerdick
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 59
Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by evcrusher View Post
Is there any point in contacting winamax and reporting the obvious expresso bots? I mean they basically MUST be aware.
who are the obvious expresso bots ?
youngdaggerdick is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online