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Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

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Old 01-31-2019, 07:36 AM   #6926
TouchOfEVil
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

I agree. Open atleast 4-5x the bb to put them in tough spots and risk their tournament life, a good sizing to the flop is 3/4. Leaving enough for you to spin it up when he shoves !
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:26 AM   #6927
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchOfEVil View Post
I agree. Open atleast 4-5x the bb to put them in tough spots and risk their tournament life, a good sizing to the flop is 3/4. Leaving enough for you to spin it up when he shoves !
+1, that's exactly how I played my big multis. I think on average u will get 50% itm like that. Another tip: always show ur bluff in high multis. it will get them on tilt.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:38 AM   #6928
valuecutting
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
for what its worth, i have played probably >70k spins lifetime, have hit >= 100x on 6 occasions and am 0/6 for winning them, despite having >50 cEV lifetime

thus i would definitely recommend not including the top multipliers in any sort of realistic calculations that you might be doing
Isn't that fairly close to the rate that you'd expect to hit them and something like 5% to lose all 6? It would be more reasonable to expect some nonzero ev and just say that you personally have just ran like **** in big multis.

Also good to see some good strat in here guys
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:25 AM   #6929
d0zer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

no idea what was going on in the posts above but my point was that a casual grinder should not really be considering winnings from 100x+ multipliers as part of their EV calculations or "assumed winnings", and is far better off considering them as a "positive bonus" as someone mentioned above
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:33 PM   #6930
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
no idea what was going on in the posts above but my point was that a casual grinder should not really be considering winnings from 100x+ multipliers as part of their EV calculations or "assumed winnings", and is far better off considering them as a "positive bonus" as someone mentioned above
Just breaking balls, obv u are right and 0/6 is very UL.
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Old 02-01-2019, 02:44 PM   #6931
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

did you guys try GTO softwares? now that GTOdb is going to close I'm evaluating new options, I'd like to know the best ones
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:46 PM   #6932
evcrusher
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

How do you deal with super terrible run and permanent setups/coolers? Hide ev? Take breaks?
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Old 02-01-2019, 06:15 PM   #6933
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by evcrusher View Post
How do you deal with super terrible run and permanent setups/coolers? Hide ev? Take breaks?
Perspective. Hammer it into your head that actual success as a profession in poker is about the long term, and in the short term your only focus should be on each individual decision, not the result of an individual all in or rivered 3 outer.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:07 PM   #6934
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by evcrusher View Post
How do you deal with super terrible run and permanent setups/coolers? Hide ev? Take breaks?
1. Go to the spin lobby.
2. Spit in your hands and rub them.
3. Click register on a 500$ spin
4. Pay 25$ rake in the process cause MORE RAKE IS BETTER.
5. BINK 1MMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:34 PM   #6935
chriak
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Hello,

I've seen on different ChipEv graphs detailed statistics such as "ChivEv 3H" or "ChipEv HU".

Do you know where I can find those statistics to add in PT4 and more importantly do you have an idea how it should be split for a given chipev?
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:11 PM   #6936
evcrusher
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

The state of Spin and Go's feels amazing. Every single site is full of regs/bots or both even in the micro-low stakes. On Winamax bots are battling each other for the top 5 in the leaderboards. Partypoker is full of -1%-1% rakeback grinders and stars.es gets worse by the hour. Dont have to say much about .eu, speaks for itself honestly. Fun times I guess..
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:53 PM   #6937
I remember poker
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Question about how cEV is calculated. Does it limit the cEV you can get per any given game, or is each hand its own thing?

An example: Player A has 800 chips, Player B has 700. They get it in with Player A an 80% favourite. He loses, but grinds back to a new chip lead without ever getting it in. Say this same process repeats a few times. Will Player A's cEV be enormous? Or will it be limited to the appropriate percentage of the chips available in that tourney?

If it is the former (unlimited cEV per game) wouldn't that make it a less accurate reflection of the EV of your session as one unusual game could blow it up one way or the other? Is there any stat that adjusts for this?

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:46 AM   #6938
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

it is unlimited, but that is what makes it accurate.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:05 AM   #6939
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by I remember poker View Post
Question about how cEV is calculated. Does it limit the cEV you can get per any given game, or is each hand its own thing?

An example: Player A has 800 chips, Player B has 700. They get it in with Player A an 80% favourite. He loses, but grinds back to a new chip lead without ever getting it in. Say this same process repeats a few times. Will Player A's cEV be enormous? Or will it be limited to the appropriate percentage of the chips available in that tourney?
Player A's cev will be enormous in this case. Cev per game is unlimited.

Quote:
If it is the former (unlimited cEV per game) wouldn't that make it a less accurate reflection of the EV of your session as one unusual game could blow it up one way or the other? Is there any stat that adjusts for this?

Thanks!
Unlimited cev per game is a more correct long-term metric than capping the cev at total chips in play. We are looking to estimate ev results over large sample (infinite hands) which is more efficiently done by assessing cev of each play in a vacuum. I am not aware of any stat adjustments possible to have this done a different way.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:10 PM   #6940
valuecutting
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

You'll also get the reverse where you lose several buyins of ev in one game

There's no icm so once you've registered its like playing a cash game where each chip has a real dollar value. If you take that example and treat it as a cash game maybe it will be a little more intuitive.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:12 AM   #6941
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by evcrusher View Post
The state of Spin and Go's feels amazing. Every single site is full of regs/bots or both even in the micro-low stakes. On Winamax bots are battling each other for the top 5 in the leaderboards. Partypoker is full of -1%-1% rakeback grinders and stars.es gets worse by the hour. Dont have to say much about .eu, speaks for itself honestly. Fun times I guess..
Very true
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:31 PM   #6942
rubenyes
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Hello guys, could some body say me more or less whats chipsEV are the regs getting on partypoker.com??
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:46 PM   #6943
evcrusher
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubenyes View Post
Hello guys, could some body say me more or less whats chipsEV are the regs getting on partypoker.com??
Considering the pool and rakeback, id imagine alot of regs are not making alot of money preb (if any) at all.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:35 AM   #6944
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubenyes View Post
Hello guys, could some body say me more or less whats chipsEV are the regs getting on partypoker.com??
The problem is smartcheat is blocking the stakes as low as 10$. They have a system to avoid each other and bully other regs. Really tough for you if you are not connected with the spins maffia.
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:03 PM   #6945
WateryBoil
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

lol i thought the whole point of spins was random player pool?

how is it possible that the sites cant generate randomized tables and spin stable software over writes it? how is that even legal?
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:10 PM   #6946
tittenmaus69
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

the whole point of spins is to find a site where livesolvers dont get banned and where i can collude with my brothers.
cheers
stefano
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:38 PM   #6947
acbarone
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
lol i thought the whole point of spins was random player pool?

how is it possible that the sites cant generate randomized tables and spin stable software over writes it? how is that even legal?
You're right, the point of blind registration was to inhibit regs from avoiding each other and help create "random" payer pools. It was the tournament equivalent of banning seat scripts and giving players anonymity, at least until all three players had registered for the game. I imagine the intention was to allow the recreational depositors a better chance, which would hopefully lead to more of them sticking around/running up a bankroll/re-depositing/etc and ultimately a better overall ecosystem.

However, a handful of prominent Spin stables have created/utilized illegal software that reveals the usernames of players who are registered to the game, allowing its users to game select. Other stables might not be explicitly violating the rules via restricted programs, but are certainly violating the spirit of those rules by colluding together and notifying one another of their intent to register. Stables are the most prominent offenders, but groups of individuals are doing it as well. Or at least they were, back when I was a regular at the $100s. No one seems to care that their efforts are 1) Against the rules 2) Causing a negative effect that ripples throughout the entire community.

Maybe I'm wrong and people DO care, but they've resigned themselves to a selfish mentality of "Well I gotta get mine" which leads to even more grey area/underhanded tactics. It's a terrible cycle; one individual/group notices another doing something to gain an unfair advantage, and feels the pressure to do the same just to keep up.

Or perhaps there's not much that can be done to stop people from colluding in this manner, so people have to shrug and understand that if they choose to play Spins, they're doing so at a significant disadvantage compared to those who are cheating. It's honestly quite sad and will surely hurt the long-term viability of that individual format, and possibly online poker itself. But hey, who cares about personal integrity (not to mention future equity) when you can eek out an extra few chips per game right now?

As I said, it's incredibly disheartening for the people who are going about things 'the right way.' I can only hope that sites care more about game integrity going forward, enough to implement methods to find players who are caught cheating and impose harsher punishments. Alternatively, I could hope that people become less selfish/more honorable, but I'm not sure if that's more or less far-fetched than sites giving a **** about something other than their bottom line.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:09 PM   #6948
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

thanks, interesting answer and very informative but overall very depressing to hear.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:16 PM   #6949
evcrusher
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Certain people will never get less selfish or more honorable. Poker sites need to do more and ban people faster and permanently. I honestly think thats not enough tho. What these people do is fraud. They should face legal actions and possible jail time depending on individual cases. If the worst case scenario for these people is a ban ( which is not even likely right now ) they will just continue. Everyone else gets punished for being honest.
People abusing the game and spin stables that only focus of maxing out their profit without giving a single *** about the state of the game are the biggest problem right now.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:15 AM   #6950
saintanna23
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

The most fair games are running on Poker Stars at the moment but you are paying a lot of rake for them to protect u. They have banned several of SMARTCHEAT's players already, hence they are moving to partypoker cause they don't give a flying **** atm. My advice would be to play on Poker Stars, even though the rake is high, they still have the most recreationals and they are somewhat protecting the honest players by punishing cheaters like SmartSpin stable.
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