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Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

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Old 10-08-2018, 11:05 AM   #6801
XIHUANSUN888
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAPP View Post
I play 100s+, yeah have evidence of few of them.

Could i have your skype by pm
Hi all
It's my first post here. I intend to play a big Spin and Go volume (starting at 10- 20$) during the next months and I would be very thankfull to you if someone could give me some insight:

Basically I have doubts about playing on Partypoker.com or Pokerstars.com:
Are there bots on partypoker.com at 20$ and 50$ games? Frequency of multipliers seems exactly the same on both rooms but do you think it more profitable to play on pokerstars.com where the field is bigger (also there are stables) and where there is no rakeback?
I will be happy to have a chat on discord if you are interested to discuss! my username is xihuanshun7#2077
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:22 PM   #6802
Timotej777
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by AAPP View Post
Does anyone has evidence of any bot at Spin&Go at Partpoker??
Have not noticed any bots on party, on winamax there are tons.
I always look at Pokcas.com to check for shady/cool things regarding poker rooms because nowadays you have to know what's going on.
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:59 AM   #6803
Zefer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

hello

cant find any info about new 10$ promo on PS, what are the chances of spin 2x,4x and these packages ? IT pays to play it?
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:38 AM   #6804
Wallmonger
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Hi, I want to develop a new PT4 HUD for spins, since that it is the most played format, but I don't have any HHs. Is someone willing to send me some hundred of hands to test it? If this is breaking the forum rules for any reason I apologize in advance, but given the fact I'm not looking for datamined hands nor unfair advantage, it should be fair
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:08 AM   #6805
tittenmaus69
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

why not play just a few playmoney or 0,25cent spins?
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:34 AM   #6806
Wallmonger
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by tittenmaus69 View Post
why not play just a few playmoney or 0,25cent spins?
lol, I haven't thought about play money, ty a lot man

EDIT: need at least 10k in play money to get one spin running lol....
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:06 PM   #6807
Nitti Vitti
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by Wallmonger View Post
lol, I haven't thought about play money, ty a lot man

EDIT: need at least 10k in play money to get one spin running lol....
also playmoney shouldn't get you hand historys

but just play 0.25$

it also helps with knowing which stats are good/get enough samplesize etc
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:10 AM   #6808
TiltMeOut1
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Hi everyone.
My questions are probably already answered somewhere but, if it is possible, I would like to know My Cev per position in PT4.
What should theoretically be the differences of Cev per position too ?
I would also like to know if there was an easy way to observe Vilain v Hero and Hero v Vilain statistics in BvB.
Additionally , is it possible to observe our own statistics against a given Vilain ?

Finally , who are the best coaches around for you ?
Thanks a lot guys
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:06 PM   #6809
BogdanM1
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltMeOut1 View Post
Hi everyone.
My questions are probably already answered somewhere but, if it is possible, I would like to know My Cev per position in PT4.
What should theoretically be the differences of Cev per position too ?
I would also like to know if there was an easy way to observe Vilain v Hero and Hero v Vilain statistics in BvB.
Additionally , is it possible to observe our own statistics against a given Vilain ?

Finally , who are the best coaches around for you ?
Thanks a lot guys
PM your skype and i will set up Cev per position in PT4 for you .
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:12 PM   #6810
obviousTROLL
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Is there any similar live tracker around like hypertracker, but something that doesn't steal hands secretly?
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:15 PM   #6811
obviousTROLL
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallmonger View Post
Hi, I want to develop a new PT4 HUD for spins, since that it is the most played format, but I don't have any HHs. Is someone willing to send me some hundred of hands to test it? If this is breaking the forum rules for any reason I apologize in advance, but given the fact I'm not looking for datamined hands nor unfair advantage, it should be fair
You can ask smartspin to let you access their cloud based hand sharing database. Tell obvioustroll sent you!
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:26 PM   #6812
He I Se N Be Rg
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timotej777 View Post
Have not noticed any bots on party, on winamax there are tons.
I always look at Pokcas.com to check for shady/cool things regarding poker rooms because nowadays you have to know what's going on.
I started playing the $50 pool on Party and notice the same Polish players in every game. Won't name names but some of them play at least 6 tables (I kept registering to see) for hours.

After the SmartSpin thread, I'm going to assume they're migrating and full on cheating? Spin queues + preflop advice.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:34 AM   #6813
gdaviezz
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by He I Se N Be Rg View Post
I started playing the $50 pool on Party and notice the same Polish players in every game. Won't name names but some of them play at least 6 tables (I kept registering to see) for hours.

After the SmartSpin thread, I'm going to assume they're migrating and full on cheating? Spin queues + preflop advice.
i played 100s on there a while back and there was 2 regs in pretty much every game for a few days, LoRzoD and some chinese name which i cant recall, they NEVER played in the same game tho so i would load 2 tables and have 1 on each table, 100% que system going on there and i have heard LoRzoD has very close to GTO numbers over a large sample
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:03 AM   #6814
oooooohmy
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by gdaviezz View Post
i played 100s on there a while back and there was 2 regs in pretty much every game for a few days, LoRzoD and some chinese name which i cant recall, they NEVER played in the same game tho so i would load 2 tables and have 1 on each table, 100% que system going on there and i have heard LoRzoD has very close to GTO numbers over a large sample
lol at LoRzoD being close to gto.

And from what i know party is ok with regs having a queue system to avoid each other. Even if the games should not have table selection cause of blind lobbies, party is ok with that.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:18 AM   #6815
gdaviezz
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by oooooohmy View Post
lol at LoRzoD being close to gto.

And from what i know party is ok with regs having a queue system to avoid each other. Even if the games should not have table selection cause of blind lobbies, party is ok with that.
well if you know more about him then please fire away, but all i remember is he and ParkJiSung in every game but never together, no matter the time i grinded and a mate with a decent sample saying lorzod stats in GTODB are very close to GTO
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:22 AM   #6816
Piotr
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Queing and GTO bots are more than obvious on the Party (not only there). I also informed PP support, but they do nothing. I think they are ok with this situation, what is really sad.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:58 PM   #6817
GTOplayer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr View Post
Queing and GTO bots are more than obvious on the Party (not only there). I also informed PP support, but they do nothing. I think they are ok with this situation, what is really sad.
So you got any sort of proof for your views? I agree with the queue situation and have observed certain players that most likely do queue. However GTO bots on spins is quite an statement. To make it clear for you there is no known approximate of "gto" currently on 3-handed variants. Though that does not rule out bots that switch on when the 2-way phase starts. Or even bots that just beat the average field with some sub optimal strategy 3-handed. Even the newest solvers that are currently launched do not produce stable gto strategies for games where n>2. And practically the theory just lacks any sort of proof all around.

That being said it would be rather naive to think that some botters wont still try to beat the game with their sub-optimal ****ty bots. Visit any botsite and you will see that partypoker aint ranked too high on their views regarding to site safety. Dunno if things have changed on 2018 though. Probably not But I still don`t agree with the gto bot part when it comes to sit n go hero. Furthermore I dont think that party is in the business of allowing bots to play in 2018. If there are bots though, it will take some time from them to have a good sample size to flag them out. They most likely want to be absolutely sure about banning someone because otherwise they would end up banning also some legit players in the process.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:39 PM   #6818
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

People have always used the term GTO when describing players or active playing bots as something that at best is a weak approximate to GTO. Just consider it slang GTOplayer, I know it's not the appropriate term for what they are describing, but it is what they mean (even if they don't always realize it).

It's still quite awful, something automated that just sucks money from losing players, even if it's barely winning above rake, is awful for the games. The owner doesn't have to put in any constant effort or mental stress to play tens of thousands of games, unlike real human players. And it scales to capabilities well beyond even a small house of hard working players (due to being able to be deployed across sites, across accounts to run 24/7, etc.).
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:29 PM   #6819
GTOplayer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
People have always used the term GTO when describing players or active playing bots as something that at best is a weak approximate to GTO. Just consider it slang GTOplayer, I know it's not the appropriate term for what they are describing, but it is what they mean (even if they don't always realize it).

It's still quite awful, something automated that just sucks money from losing players, even if it's barely winning above rake, is awful for the games. The owner doesn't have to put in any constant effort or mental stress to play tens of thousands of games, unlike real human players. And it scales to capabilities well beyond even a small house of hard working players (due to being able to be deployed across sites, across accounts to run 24/7, etc.).
Yes, surely people do generalize the term (at least most of the poker players do). Just to point out that there is no relying on any 3-way solutions on the theoretical side of things. And since bots need logic to function there is no way even close to optimal (if stable optimal strategy even exist 3-way) 3-way bots are playing today.

Last edited by GTOplayer; 11-13-2018 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:02 PM   #6820
valuecutting
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

spins don't really go 3 way post without a fish
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Old Yesterday, 10:21 AM   #6821
TRT Boss
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Thumbs down Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOplayer View Post
Yes, surely people do generalize the term (at least most of the poker players do). Just to point out that there is no relying on any 3-way solutions on the theoretical side of things. And since bots need logic to function there is no way even close to optimal (if stable optimal strategy even exist 3-way) 3-way bots are playing today.

There are pseudo-GTO solutions for 3 ways also. From now on lets call it gto. I dont get why you think its a lot less reliable than heads up(minus the part you need to use higher abstraction and compression). Could you explain it to me please?

Also one can make a semi-GTO bot (NOT GTO semi-bot) which plays GTO 2way and combined it with the traditional bot interface which thinks in terms of if... then... (also called as profile-bots). I'm sure the best bots operates this way otherwise making huge huge mistakes versus fish. As it was said only a small portion of your chipev comes from 3 way spots.
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM   #6822
GTOplayer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by TRT Boss View Post
There are pseudo-GTO solutions for 3 ways also. From now on lets call it gto. I dont get why you think its a lot less reliable than heads up(minus the part you need to use higher abstraction and compression). Could you explain it to me please?

Also one can make a semi-GTO bot (NOT GTO semi-bot) which plays GTO 2way and combined it with the traditional bot interface which thinks in terms of if... then... (also called as profile-bots). I'm sure the best bots operates this way otherwise making huge huge mistakes versus fish. As it was said only a small portion of your chipev comes from 3 way spots.
Well it is not easily explainable why that is the case. It is just something one could conclude after reviewing academic papers about the subject. There are so many points that it is hard to give even an overview here on this thread. Just consider that for 2-way solutions we have firm background on the theory and some background on the practicality. For 3-way solutions we have theory that is still on child`s shoes and no prove on the practical field whatsoever.

Your second point is valid. It is possible that those kind of bots exist. Although I would still want to argue that there is other formats far more consistent and reliable for botters to take part in.
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Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM   #6823
valuecutting
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

It's not really up for debate whether or not gto realtime assistance/bots exist in spins. They have for quite some time and Stars has put in a ton of effort into stopping them, and in the process freezing many legitimate players aswell. My guess would be that it's just a database of solutions for headsup situations (hu, btn vs bb, sb vs bb) with basic abstraction mapping.
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Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM   #6824
valuecutting
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOplayer View Post
To make it clear for you there is no known approximate of "gto" currently on 3-handed variants. Though that does not rule out bots that switch on when the 2-way phase starts. Or even bots that just beat the average field with some sub optimal strategy 3-handed. Even the newest solvers that are currently launched do not produce stable gto strategies for games where n>2. And practically the theory just lacks any sort of proof all around.
Approximate gto solutions for 3 way preflop exist. Then any scenario that reaches heads up postflop is just as easily solved as a normal heads up hand. So even though it is a 3 handed game you can actually play very close to gto. You'd just need to figure out how to play rare 3 way postflop pots that the fish creates by open limping or frequently flatting the sb. If it's realtime assistance then the actual player could just handle it, but it would still be fairly trivial to make something that wouldn't spew too bad in those spots (you're right that it won't play gto in these spots though)
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #6825
GTOplayer
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Re: ** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread **

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Originally Posted by valuecutting View Post
Approximate gto solutions for 3 way preflop exist. Then any scenario that reaches heads up postflop is just as easily solved as a normal heads up hand. So even though it is a 3 handed game you can actually play very close to gto. You'd just need to figure out how to play rare 3 way postflop pots that the fish creates by open limping or frequently flatting the sb. If it's realtime assistance then the actual player could just handle it, but it would still be fairly trivial to make something that wouldn't spew too bad in those spots (you're right that it won't play gto in these spots though)
You missed the point here. First of all you are entering into "3-way strategy" world whenever 3 players get dealt in hand. Thus btn vs bb, sb vs bb and btn vs sb vs bb all count as "3-way strategy". Second, it is possible to create some fictitious GTO kind of solution in games where n>2. However, your solutions are not going to be stable under mixed strategies. Thus you are entering into a GTO solution loop where there is x amount of possible "GTO like" solutions. Which basically means that you are never going to fulfill pareto-optimality condition. It may be difficult to understand the concept without proper introduction into the theoretical side of things. And it is far from trivial you can be 100% sure about that.

Last edited by GTOplayer; Yesterday at 10:22 PM.
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