Must have a decent winrate if they're happy to take losses on banned accounts and using VPNs etc. Believe akis was advertising his bot for sale? Prob the item that links a few accounts

I have to speak up for some hungarians since this forum hates them.

PPB stable mostly didn't cheat and never have. This includes (I currently believe) the regs that were banned September 2016 for "chart use" or database sharing (a lot of regs would have to be banned here).

The ones banned- nemtomi, szabina, frankept, sir whiteman (and more) all left PPB, then started using a bot. In fact, I actually know that sir whiteman left PPB a few months ago to join nemtomi, and got banned some time later (also lied to me at this time about not using a bot when I asked him why he left PPB).

Also the hyperdonk case is unrelated to spins completely. He just knows xrab (who apparently has the best bot on euros and unshares ppl there) and they had some deal with sharing euros which allowed them to get into stars 1ks very quickly. Stars either detected something, or they feel that this sudden change in playing pattern to be suspicious (which it is tbh).

While this is true (afaik as well) and it could just be the playing pattern change, it's pretty sad that hypers in 2017 have come to this at highstakes

Not that I expect any botters printing money at 200s+ to care, but really? It's pretty depressing tbh.

I'm curious what limits does that bot play up to and which euro sites? If not known no hassle

Got back $899, so prob got fleeced for $10k+

There is literally no one that has ever admitted that he used any software assistance. At least afaik. Even after they get banned. Akis is banned "because he made too much EV", not because of using a bot. Generally everyone is banned either without reason whatsoever or because stars are stupid. I find it really hilarious how ******ed you have to be to use something in a way that will lead with high frequency to ban. Who said that poker players are smart?

As for second bolded, xrab:
That's just brilliant business model. You have to give him that.

Was just thinking actually they run a ton of rake races on eurosites - makes way more sense to grind the rb and go undetectedas opposed to going anywhere near stars. Wonder how bad ipoker is these days,

There are players playing 8000+games per month at 100s on winamax for years. Average game on winamax takes longer, on top of that. So that would be my number 1 suspect. And i dont think they care. It costs money/time to hunt bots and it doesnt affect sites bottom line if its bots or humans playing.

And about banned 100s spin regs on stars - there are much more of them banned. Not that hard to figure out which ones. Guys making 10K ev/month easily just stopping playing. Sharkscope/spinlyzer or similar just shows no activity for many months/year on those accounts. Even guys who decide to quit poker entirely usually just donk around playing some tournaments from time to time.

Whole thing gives me mixed emotions. Its cool to get big refunds and see that stars are doing their job, but on the other hand big refunds are just the proof of lots of shady stuff going on.

This refund mustve been at least 100k $ seeing how much everyone got.

Yes I was really stupid back then. I even told him that I was reporting Frankept because of xyz reason.

But really I felt bad for some Hungarians, which made me drop my guard. After he got categorically banned he ignores me on skype...

Huh was wondering how it took 2000+ games every week to win the 100s leaderboard on winamax. They've been incentivising botting and account-sharing with that promotion for years. Extremely high rakeback if you can win a couple of those leaderboards a month.

its even worse on 5s - 25s
3,5k games/week seems to be the norm

The promotion is obv not the problem. The bots are.

So did their reps make any public statement concerning that issue?

Put some pressure on them with emails, and if no results, go public with threads here and in other main areas where people see it. If they don't think it's a big enough problem now (give them a chance to see it that way), make it a big enough problem.

It's about time sites other than Stars took botting more seriously.

Sites need to work together if anything.

https://www.winamax.fr/en/challenges...esso-challenge

Here's the current leaderboard anyways. Began on Sunday and leader is on over 1300 games.

It's says from 29th tho, if these run sufficient, should not be hard to do this for a human.

I agree. Other than possibly methods of detection (and it can be hard for some sites to trust others with that information), it can be very difficult due to privacy laws and the nature of working with so many different legal jurisdictions.

Keep clicking previous on the leaderboard and take note of no. 1

jesus he's done over 3500 in a week

i think it's far more than that, the few regs i know got over 1k and there are at least 30 regs with similar volume

but who cares, seems i can't beat spins at more than 40 cev anymore

So... database sharing is not allowed... observing of spin tables has been removed... I'm sure spinngoes are still as fair game as ps claims them to be

Btw a high stakes reg has said Oborra was once agained banned by Stars. Love how people here are saying stars is on top of the issue when they can't even decide whether or not to ban ONE player.

They're beginning to look really bad at being able to deal with supervised bots.

Stars is not on top of the issue, but security at every other site seems to be non-existent.

In future poker is more and more going to look really bad, let alone stars look really bad as humans improve, bots improve and cheating techniques improve.

If otb_redbaron gets a live advice software going right now (if there isn't gto/exploit solutions for the games he plays out there already, there will be soon) there is zero chance that anyone can detect a change in playing pattern enough to ban him.

Of the 10 ppl who can actually tell anything about otb, none of them work at stars, and there is no way one guy can explain to the whole department why he is cheating. This is assuming otb isn't trying to avoid detection through his play.

Can you expand on the last two paragraphs Watergun. Why is there zero chance in your mind?

Why wouldn't a sufficiently large 360 camera sample compared to pre camera and post camera samples be enough to detect changes within a 99%+ level of confidence?