haha not shocking at all. playing for a while and I saw many "noble" style of play

but here is still backer fault in first place. such people should never be accepted. quiet easy to distinguish some dumb ass from average inteligent guy in short, well constructed interview.

There's plenty of intelligent people who can't learn to beat medium-high stakes poker, and it'll be impossible to filter them out based on an interview where say, they want a stake for 7s or 15s.

In my opinion, it's less about intelligence and more about what Squire said, emotional stability/control.

Have met plenty of average intelligence people that crush, and plenty of very intelligent people that struggle badly.

Then again, you do get some crushers who are an emotional disaster, so these generalities only go so far.

Of course with stables most of the time people accepted are far from dumb. And of course intelligent guys also struggle. Which doesn't mean that no matter how dumb you are you can always climb all the way.

Doesn't mean that no matter how dumb you are you can't climb all the way either :P I'm sure it takes more work, but I choose to (naively) believe that with hard work and dedication anyone can fulfill their dreams.

I have been going over the Spinalyzer stats at 15$ Spins and I'm really baffled by the information. What is says is pretty much:

1. There is actually VERY few people crushing the game over a big sample.
2. The ROI seems to be a lot lesser than what people in general think about Spins.

.. Seeing as the spins have been hyped as THE poker-format to play it makes me wonder.

A good evROI seems to be around 6-8% or 65-75 Cev - but the number of people maintaining that is like 30-50 people more or less.

I'm no saying a 5% ROI is bad or anything, what I'm trying to say is that it's unlikely to maintain a ROI on 7%+, which makes it resonable to question the profitability to play Spins, since it's so much more variance than other formats.



Thoughts?

Alicia is a legend. 'She' is one of a kind who doesn't want to move up but, instead, apparently prefers to cash out almost all the winnings and spend them on pleasant stuff.

This approach is somewhat justifiable as the field skill jump from 15s to 30s is said to be abnormally high. Apparently, Alicia has realised that 'she' wins more $ per tourney in 15s than in 30s and that the situation can be fixed only by intense effort and coaching whose longterm usefulness looks questionable taking into account the rate at which online poker is deteriorating.

Hi there Lawboyy,
its because very limited number of (semi)talented players stick to 15s, people that are capable of achieving 65+cev on 15s are moving up after couple-few K games.
Its fairly safe to assume that every 30s reg with 40+ cev would meet your criteria, every winning 60s/100s regs that are 30/25+cev too. So that would mean hundreds of players

cheers

I don't think every 40 CEV reg at 30s would get 65+ at 15s.

^ Indeed, because if they were capable of making 65+ at 15s, it would be wise for them to move down there (to earn $1.2/game with rakeback instead of their current $1.0 at 30s).

except if they are smart (mostly they are) and they prioritize long term profit instead of current profit. reg which earn 1$ per game on 30$ have plenty place to improvement and when is done, in the further he will be able earn much more then that. reg on 15$ which staying in his confort zone instead of moving up, he will never earn more.

Mkay, #KeepDreaming

I've got some bad news for you - expected profits from poker become less and less with each passing year.

We're well past the stage where one can talk about 'improve now and reap the rewards later'. You should play the stakes you gain the maximum money from today as tommorow online poker won't even be here, or will only be beatable for peanuts by grinders in third world countries.

If you look around you can find this exact same quote back 9 years ago when I first was turned onto online poker.

Back in 2007, they'd say "the easy days of the moneymaker boom are over, everyone is solid now."

In hindsight, there was a cash game boom that likely eclipsed the early days by a good margin (this was from say 2008-2011), and specific games boomed at different times (husngs 2010-2013 were amazing, and 2014-2016 are better than pre 2010).

Zoom, spins, MTTs, PLO, there's a lot of money to be made in various games (and on various poker rooms, that's a factor as well). The good money isn't always super obvious, nor is it easy if you don't work hard for it, but it's always been there in several places at an given time.

I'm not inclined to agree.

People are posting brag graphs if they make $100k a year these days. You're considered a pretty damned solid player if you can make $50k a year online.

Before, there was plenty with 400k, 500k a year graphs (i.e. major life changing money, rather than just 'ho hum, I make a decent middle class type level salary'). Now those figures are reserved for literally a handful of nosebleed cash game crushers. And no one earns those figures in spins or HUSNG's. Online poker contracts every year. That means every year the pie is smaller, and it's been going that way for a long time now.

You say HUSNG's are better now than pre-2010. Maybe you're right - I wasn't around back then so have no knowledge. But if that's true, that only goes to show how low the traffic must have been for that particular game niche, not the 'difficulty' of the games when you got action. I mean what could be worse than today, with ****ing reg cartels at every stake you can make decent money, forcing you to play a legion of regs before you can sit a fish? That's literally the nut low for an unestablished player trying to make money from HUSNGs.

Spins are a little bit better thanks to no reg cartel, but the rake is much higher, variance is high, and certainly at 15s+ spins have got a lot more difficult than when they first came out. The structure is such that 2 reg games are unbeatable after rake, and one reg games are only beatable for a small amount - so the entire system relies on having a lot of fish to feed on. If those fish numbers drop a bit - and they will - then spins will cease to be beatable for any reasonable money as there's little edge that can be had against a player who actually has a clue in a hyper structure with 5-7% rake.

We're past the years of dozens of people making millions from online poker (at least in the near future), but even mid 6 figures are doable for the elite and 100k+ is very achievable for good players putting the work/volume in at spins.

Also disagree that 2 reg games aren't beatable at 15s, though anyone who can have ~5%ROI hu vs 15s regs isn't playing 15s.

You see, Ryan, even though it's possible to remain a winner for many years by constantly perfecting the skill, regs improve faster than fish, thus if one just learns to beat fish and stays at low stakes where it's abundant, he'll get more money per hour of study effort because his skill will be more maintainable than the edge in high stakes reg battles.

That's what eternal $7-15 regs do. They've mastered the art of valuebetting, once and forever, and they can get consistent (only slightly declining over time) profit while barely studying at all, i.e. they can afford to have a higher grind-to-study ratio.

@coon74 , I respect you a lot for a deep statistical knowledge and contribution to this threat. yet, you can say whatever you want about this particular subject and you will no convince me . wanna have the results as the best players? work and play as the best players. is simple as that. if not, there is only one place which left: mediocrity.

what concerning money in poker, all was said 10000 times already. sure, there is not easy money in poker right know. there is not millions falling from heaven. yet, there is still bunch of money to be made. spins? 100K+ per year for good a 100$ reg is standard. maybe is not the millions but for me is still quiet big amount, especially when we are our own boss, having own schedule, liberty of movement and risk of ruin is relatively low compare to others entrepreneurs. there is cons of course as well, like social isolation for example (at least for me). yet, in which profession we will not find something unpleasant from time to time? if you know one and it pay well, please let me know

No, I don't. I'm just trying to guard myself from being ridiculed for not wanting it while seemingly everyone else ITT wants it

It's so fulfilling to see $10/hour drop into my pocket almost effortlessly (assuming that dumb grind is not really effort, it's just button-clicking).

Lawl, no. Not this.

These eternal regs aren't some fish-crushing connoisseurs of the value bet. They haven't 'mastered the art' of anything except possibly game selection, as their opponents are (generally) too terrible to exploit their mistakes.

As someone who stayed in the same lane for several years, I fully understand the value of being comfortable, making consistent money, avoiding harsh negative variance and the mental stress that accompanies it. But no, that does not make these guys any better vs fish than the $60s/$100s player pool. In fact, it's the opposite -- the grinders in the higher limits with a better theoretical understanding of the game are also better at hand reading and therefore, betting an amount designed to get their opponent to call/fold.

I used the wrong word 'mastered' to describe their level of knowledge. I meant that they know the strategy well enough to make money, which fortunately doesn't require being an expert yet.

And obviously, there's nothing wrong with game selection except explicitly banned ways (i.e. registration timing at Stars).

how many good regs have there scope unlocked?? show me 1% of the top 20% of regs 100+ il eat my own dick all the goats have em locked for tax/dont let em know how muh me made reasons.

as for cartels it is was it is, its off putting but i can see why its needed/effective

spinlyf tho

Is there a soft or some-way in Stars to auto-reg to a new spin everytime you quit one ? So I can just 3-4 table and not have to manually register everytime. Thanks

Look up SiQ SpinReg in the commercial software forum.

Hi:
¿How much Cev you can expect win in average in 60$ Spin and go games actually? The last month the 80% of the tables are with at least 1 reg. Thanks