** Official Spin and Go's Discussion Thread ** - Page 169 - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

one in a million, just lol

why not just make them 120,000x instead of 12,000x and pay out 1 out of 10,000,000

surely the potential to win 100,000 buyins would attract more players than the current, stars is missing a great marketing opportunity here

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03-21-2016 , 03:45 PM

#4203

Bluffyou

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 758

Frequencies in 60s and 100s have changed. Looks better at face value with more 4x games and less 10,000x

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03-21-2016 , 03:50 PM

#4204

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

I missed the part where they reduced the top-tier frequency from 3 per million to 1 per million, so it looks like the stated rake percentages are unfortunately correct.

So the change doesn't affect my financial decisions that much because most of the part of the buy-in that goes towards the top tier is a sunk cost / overkill to me anyway.

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03-21-2016 , 03:54 PM

#4205

Bluffyou

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 758

Quote:

Originally Posted by coon74

So the change doesn't affect my financial decisions that much because most of the part of the buy-in that goes towards the top tier is a sunk cost / overkill to me anyway.

It doesn't make as much of a difference as you would think. 4x still down at 15s-30s

Edit: I haven't done the simulations to verify

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03-21-2016 , 03:59 PM

#4206

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Yes, but out of the 1% rake increase, 0.8% is because of the top tier probability cut and only 0.2% is because of the 2x-4x probability adjustments.

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03-21-2016 , 04:35 PM

#4207

Bluffyou

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 758

So to put this into perspective. The effective rake has increased by 0.2%

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03-21-2016 , 04:42 PM

#4208

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

To me, roughly yes, and VIP rakeback has also increased by 0.1-0.3%.

The main problem with Stars games to me is still the combination of their slowness and toughness. I'm not good at skinning the sheep once (in 30 games an hour with 3-minute blind levels and deeper stacks), I prefer shearing them many times (in 50 games an hour with 2-minute levels).

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03-21-2016 , 05:17 PM

#4209

Myles316

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 121

I'm a bit confused. The rake at the 15s has gone up 1% but because there are more 4x the effective rake has really only go up 0.2% if we don't include the top prize which is irrelevant anyway?

Also did the rake back % increase?

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03-21-2016 , 05:23 PM

#4210

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myles316

I'm a bit confused. The rake at the 15s has gone up 1% but because there are more 4x the effective rake has really only go up 0.2% if we don't include the top prize which is irrelevant anyway?

Sounds like you get it (although "irrelevant" is a matter of opinion).

Quote:

Also did the rake back % increase?

Not the %, but the amount per game will be up a little since rake is up.

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03-21-2016 , 05:25 PM

#4211

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

The VIP program didn't change, but instead of getting reward equity worth 20% of 5% of the buy-in = 1% of the BI, Goldstars will be getting 20% of 6% of the buy-in = 1.2% of it.

The probability of 4x's is slightly decreased (they are replaced by 2x) so the gross rake is to go up by 0.2 percentage points if we disregard the top multiplier.

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03-21-2016 , 05:34 PM

#4212

Myles316

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 121

Well it doesn't sound great but isn't as bad as what I first thought. Thanks for clarifying.

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03-21-2016 , 05:35 PM

#4213

Mrtrebus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,962

I think there are only more 4x at 60s and 100s, slighlty less at 30 and below

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03-21-2016 , 05:44 PM

#4214

Mrtrebus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,962

Its actually a 20% rake increase (25% at the $3 games), stars told us how many percent points it was to make it sound smaller.

Eg. At 30s rake is $1.50 and is been increased to $1.80, and increase of $0.30 or 20%

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03-21-2016 , 05:52 PM

#4215

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Yes, we were discussing percent points; it's just a bit too difficult to write 'percent point' all the time. And anyway, it's most interesting to know how the rake will affect ROIs, and the percent point is the most convenient unit for it.

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03-21-2016 , 08:55 PM

#4216

ExpensiveTaste

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 565

Can someone explain something to me briefly

So $15's and $30's the top prize is now a 1 in a million chance instead of 3 in a million is that correct ?

And is there going to be more lower multiplier spins at the 15's to compensate for this such as more 4 X's at the 15's ?

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03-21-2016 , 09:08 PM

#4217

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Can someone explain something to me briefly

So $15's and $30's the top prize is now a 1 in a million chance instead of 3 in a million is that correct ?

Correct, all buyins went from 3 in 1M to 1 in 1M for the top tier.

Quote:

And is there going to be more lower multiplier spins at the 15's to compensate for this such as more 4 X's at the 15's ?

No. At $1, $3, $7, $15, and $30 the number of 4x is lower than before (and 2x are correspondingly higher). In combination with the reduction from 3 to 1 in a million for the top tier, it increases the rake (from 5% to 6% for the $15s).

For $60+ the number of 4x is increased enough (and 2x decreased) to keep rake at the 5% it was before.

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03-21-2016 , 09:08 PM

#4218

Bluffyou

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 758

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

You're right with your first bit, but there's also an increase in rake. There are higher 2x and lower 4x.

60s and 100s have the same rake, but the top tier is 1 in 1mil so they have higher 4x to compensate.

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03-21-2016 , 09:44 PM

#4219

ExpensiveTaste

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 565

So basically if you play $7's 15's or 30's you are essentially screwed ?

More 2 x 's less 4 x 's and 3 x's more unlikely to hit a Jackpot ?

Surely that is going to be a massive blow to people at these stakes ?

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03-21-2016 , 09:58 PM

#4220

SiQ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 7,248

hehehe

Last edited by SiQ; 03-21-2016 at 09:58 PM. Reason: 'massive blow'

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03-21-2016 , 10:03 PM

#4221

Bluffyou

adept

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 758

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

More 2 x 's less 4 x 's and 3 x's more unlikely to hit a Jackpot ?

?

I assume you mean 6x. I can only speak for 15 - 100s but they remain the same. Unless you were planning to bink the big one this lifetime then you're roughly 0.1% more screwed at 15 and 30s.

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03-21-2016 , 10:23 PM

#4222

ExpensiveTaste

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 565

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluffyou

I assume you mean 6x. I can only speak for 15 - 100s but they remain the same. Unless you were planning to bink the big one this lifetime then you're roughly 0.1% more screwed at 15 and 30s.

Yes sorry

More 2 X 's will surely have a huge impact to the games ?

Am I over reacting lol ?

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03-21-2016 , 10:29 PM

#4223

Myles316

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 121

I'm playing 15s and still don't really understand how we are only 0.1% worse off when the rake has increased 1% and the number of 4x have decreased? Has the number of 6x increased?

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03-21-2016 , 10:36 PM

#4224

ExpensiveTaste

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 565

Yeah I just don't understand why the majority of fuss is on the 1% rake increase and not the fact you will be playing more 2 x 's which massively harms your bottom line

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03-22-2016 , 12:16 AM

#4225

Nefirmative

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,213

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Yeah I just don't understand why the majority of fuss is on the 1% rake increase and not the fact you will be playing more 2 x 's which massively harms your bottom line

Your bottom line is being cut by 1%, not including rakeback on that 1%. I assure you 15s are still beatable with these changes.

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