Where shall we discuss strat for spin&go? HU or STT?
They've been around for a while and did not see a single post about them in neither of those.

This game will be impossible for individuals to grind once it gets filled with regs who split binks and won't mind grinding them for a tiny ROI since it takes a lot of the variance out of the equation. Colluding isn't a big issue since there is no ICM in these games so there's not much you can do and risking your account for a small % of the top prize isn't worth it. Scamming everyone out of the top prize isn't worth it if you want to play this long term.

high prize for 30$ is 30000$ right ? alot of player would scam for less than that.
as for collusion , ofc some people will share cards softplay share handhistory do anything to get some edge.

agree and whats next ? maybe 1 hand of NL holdem + 1 spin of roulette wheel.
Pandora's box is open.

raise button, 3bet small from sb (both team), looks stronk and bb folds? Random opens, one guy 3bets, another guy 4bets allin ? Random folds = instant profit

So you have three equally skilled Regs put into a 3 Man winner take all SnG together.

They each will win 1/3 of the time, each having a winrate in this game of ~33%

Now put two of them in an alliance. You're telling me the two cannot manipulate this game in a way that puts the third party at a disadvantage?

I'm on the button in the first couple levels and playing an optimal Raise/fold Raise/call, etc strategy.

SB(player A)is playing sub optimal against the BB(player B) when I fold my button. That player is not stealing frequently enough against his teammate. SB(player B) is playing optimally against me when I'm in the BB. My natural instinct would be to try and exploit the suboptimal play of the SB(player A) by opening up my button more frequently but this would open me up to being exploited by both of them which they would be capable of doing since they are teamed up without me knowing it

Same goes for player's B button. He can open up wider on his button without me really knowing it because he inherently knows that player A is in cooperation with him. Once I fold in the SB, player A can decide to send the chips to player B by folding or he can rejam, call, whatever and maneuver those chips+ my chips back to his stack.

Basically anytime I make a fold player A and B can move chips in any which way that suits them best. They also can probably effectively set me up to make exploitative plays based on their suboptimal conditions against each other without me knowing that because they are in fact working together.

^^^This all might be a bunch of nonsense. I cannot really prove any of it and it's just my feeling that this sort of stuff would lead to my winrate dropping a few %. Possibly my own errors by opening myself up to the exploitation.

Overall I don't think Regs or even team members will hope and or even try to be put in the same games together. Their expected ROI as a "team" probably goes down when this happens in game. I still don't know if that means that soft play doesn't increase it from playing all out standard.

Dumping chips from a weaker HU player to a stronger one.

The $30 in these, are the softest games I have seen in YEARS.

Shame that they are obviously pretty bad for poker. Fish are going to go broke at lightning speed with these.

I agree with the softness part and tbh the gambooool factor might keep fish playing those for a decent bit while a bunch of regs may or may not decide the variance isn't worth their time. Generally games where edges are thinner and variance is high tend to be good for the overall economy no? Fish being able to bink has been great in all kinds of formats from PLO cash to MTTs to some hyperturbo sng formats

I'm sorry just because it's winner take all doesn't make collusion a non-factor. If you know that BB is softplaying- or even if not and you are only sharing a BR with the guy in the BB, then you can open atc on the button profitably. It's pretty big deal if you ask me.

The only time that it doesn't matter is if the third guy is folding his hand regardless of action preflop. Every other time he is losing ev to the "colluders".

Also how the hell are you supposed to detect something like this is beyond me. You're going to need huge samples, and by that time the collusion team has already profited a lot.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are stables of players with a shared br in these games already, and they would be stupid not to take advantage of the extra ev.

I could go into more detailed maths but anyway- yes collusion advantage is very real without strongly breaking stars terms and conditions.

i m pretty sure any type of collusion would break the ToS.

Yeah dunno how to word it. But it's pretty hard to detect softplaying without sharing holecard info. So I just went with "strongly".

It is crazy hard to detect however. Basically anytime any spin&go runs with a 25x pool or higher stars would have to check any and all HHS played between players that at one point or another have made p2p transactions and plug ranges rtc to see if they have made/passed up on spots they otherwise would/wouldn't take. Seems pretty much impossible to implement

it s doable but without people reporting potential colluder stars doesnt seems that efficient at detecting it. they had some kind of collusion in CAP cash game where it was definitly detectable by comparing tendencies between colluders with tendencies vs the field

So let me ask this question. If you are playing this game and want to reduce risk by swapping 50% with a friend. If you both end up on the same table and he is BB, would you open atc on the button? Is that collusion?

What's scary is that collusion auto happens without prior agreement just simply by 1 party wanting to maximize his own EV without considering other people's decisions.

It's going to be near impossible to detect.

if you open 100% of your button vs your friend instead of 80% vs the field and your friend is really tighter vs you , yeah they can figure it out.

Nah my friend doesn't even need to know so if he plays tighter or not it doesn't matter as we share a br. It's stupid for him to play different when it's hu between us.

It's not easy to work out. I can just say it's a misclick. Point is large scale collusion will prob eventually be detected. But how many of these small "spots" that come up between friends will occur? I'm saying they will happen every other game.

You can always defend yourself saying you're adjusting to his type of game tho..

I remember the stoxtrader scandal and they coluded for years with people complaining and suspecting and only after thousands of hands and with the help of a hand tracker site (none available for spin&goes that i know) were players able to present solid evidence to stars and iirc the outcome was still kind of unsatisfactory for people who had been coluded for years.

its easy to work out on a decent sample , the problem is getting that decent sample

The thing is obvious collusion would be easy to detect but if made correctly by smart people in this game would be really hard and would take a long time to be detected and dealt with.

This is just me talking about "innocent" colluders who are just trying to max in game EV. To get rid of this inherent collusion all stars has to do is ban staking/swapping somehow (at least reduce it) by e.g. banning players from the same games if they had transactions over long periods.

If you want to talk about big time china sweatshop collusion, then by the time it's detected it will be too late. Spin and Goes can't even be observed properly.