I meant the other type - has same name tho? - a bot supervised by a player who is simply there to bypass various security protocols. These are the types being caught more often by sites. A player using live simulators will deviate in strategy a little bit more from others so is less likely to be caught.

If you ask Jungleman stars aren't catching these particular guys. He's said for a long time (maybe in jest) that Oborra was using a bot and so were guys at the 5k sngs.

It isn't if they play to near libratus levels. Said really good reg because their ROI would be nothing insane, but it would kill your winrate.

(As everyone?) I'm lacking sufficient market data, but if it is anywhere close to data pre summer 2016, then two things hold:

- The rec/reg ratio (at least speaking for 15s/30s) is incredibly much higher than at any other gametype
- The player pool is giant, thus a handful of more or less regs won't have a huge influence on overall profitability, let alone make the current games "unprofitable". Imo the only one that can make them unprofitable is Amaya by either raising rake further or not putting enough effort in anti-cheat/bot

Nice post Leaks.

On the subject, I'm 99% I was playing a bot at the 30s @stars a couple of days ago.
The decision timeings was the most constant I've ever seen, did not respond chat and played extremely roboty with the lines. Still found it very leaky though.. + Quite sure it was just a prototype and not running (yet).

Im just wondering how many games you played with him, or you have skills to see that player is boting in couple of hands I'm not answering the chat also and doesnt matter what other players says, because when you are playing 4+ tables it is not possible physically for me to chat with people , because I start losing table's tempo.

I'm sure bots exists at 30s or lower, but I also don't think anyone can easily recognise them (especially if you think this bot is bad). It's better not to fear monger. And as mentioned at those stakes a few bots is not going to affect the profitability of the games.

Also consistent timings is the easiest thing to fix for a botter, and some regs use a program like timemojo to get rid of timing tells.

at what cEV on 30s would you guys consider and start playing 60s. Also would u try and take shots at 100s with 45cev at 60s?

Why at 30s or lower? Why not maximize hourly of your standalone program by playing at the highest stakes? Is it because the bots are breakeven at 30s or lower and the income comes from RB and they are losing too much at higher stakes because of better competition?

A bot can maximally be as "good" at poker as his coder and not everyone beats 60+ games
Yeah ok, technically they can be better cause they can calc stuff that their creator was capable of but is lacking the time to, but I think u get what I mean.

Not leaning too far out of the window when saying: Yes there are supposedly bots at all levels, this def is a huge problem and every measure taken against it is helpful for the market as a whole, but the problem isn't that big that it currently threatens to kill spins.

So:

Yeah most likely bots exists at all stakes. There might be more at lower stakes, but the effect to the player pool is much smaller. Also a bot at 100s is far more likely to be caught than a bot at 30s. It's not the end of spins yet.

Just saw a thing on reddit - apparently one of libratus's creators said a GTO bot could beat it at 30bb/100 hands. Libratus beat the pros at 11.55bb/100 so if development continues a lot more people would be tempted to utilise supervised bots. Very long ways away from a true GTO bot ofc - would need quantum supercomputers to deal optimally with the trillions of variable outcomes :P

Also RE the russian players on bwin/party a few are gone as quickly as they arrived. Can't deduce much from it but DON players said there were some new russian accounts that played suspiciously.

it = spins? level? how does the creator know that without illegaly trying? source?

Was actually even a bit higher, 14.7 bb/100 according to that source (german): https://www.pokerolymp.com/liberatus...nfang-vom-ende
But imo that's good news: Poker is still very beatable and even vs good regs high winrates are possible.

Creator was purely speculating, pretty humble sentiment though considering it was the best bot software for HU NL.

It's... not good news imo. Libratus didn't win just from superior play - it quite simply overwhelms the human player in terms of betsizing. It was selecting hundreds of different betsizes, making range construction for the human player extremely difficult. Will be less of a factor at 25bbs etc. If you look at its plays in isolation they look really weird. Libratus hu games were at 100b starting.

Not sure what percentage of the winrate was due to the unique overbetting/bet sizing strat and how much was due to better general play - not all the pots were unconventional ofc.

Isn't that exactly superior play?
I don't see a problem with it unless sites lose the technology battle vs botters.

Yea what's interesting though is that the program is self-learned from scratch- just so happens that this style of bet sizing is much trickier for humans to deal with:P


Btw am surprised Party have no SNG Hero promo going at all. Tournaments had leaderboard for the whole summer and ther's a massive cash leaderboard in october with 10k for first. Not even sure is SNG hero is a priority for them? Kinda strange.

A lot of 60-100 players got big refunds, some more than 1k usd. It's probably from recently banned regs. You can check if player is banned by trying to transfer money. If a player is banned you will see a message "The Stars ID you selected is not able to receive Real Money Transfers".
Some known nicknames that are banned:
hyperDONK618
akis_333
koh1990
kosmaras94
flesske
currrr14

Maybe you guys know more names so you can check and post here? Let's make a wall of shame.

.

Isn't attempting to send money to groups of banned players an easy way to get yorself banned too? You're username is going to flag up with security that you were part of the group yourself.

It will be hard to send money to hyperdonk. It will be hard to send money to me also and I am not banned. So be careful with the "no transfers" = banned logic. Not saying he is using or not using anything, just be careful with the logic.

Hyperdonk is under review and not banned, but yes you cannot send to any Bulgarians.

So, what did they get banned for exactly? I mean that's the intresting point, especially since previous convo was about botters..

Sadly it has since forever been stars' policy to not publish any reasons for banning players. You get a refund or not and the height is not comprehensably reasoned.

PPB stable
Interesting fact they start cheating on ton of accounts again but much smarter ps can't detect anymore