Having won x HUSNGs and lost y, I am up 1500(x-y) chips. I won about 250(x-y) of them on the second level.

+1, that's why I think it's useful in turbos. But 10 minutes of it is too much.

why the new thread?

2 more days and this one will be like the old one... makes no sense to me

Having thought about it some more, maybe the 2x jump is too much. They already smoothed out the big bet structure so it probably makes sense to do the same for limit. Make first level 15/30?

Also I think a 2x turbo would be popular, at least for LHE. A rec player signing up for the fastest structure available wants a 5-10 min game, not a 10-20 min game.

The blinds would have to be uneven and the jump to 20/40 would be quite small. Bigger stacks and start at 20/40? Or smoother blinds progression like in HORSE and 8-game?

What's up with 8-game being raked like a regspeed despite starting at 25BB stacks and having 6-minute levels?

I'd likely +1 this if I played LHE.

Add Extra Table
We agree this would be a clear improvement with little or no downside. Therefore, we will strongly consider adding this in the future.

Deal/Chop button
One concern we have regarding some form of chop button is that it could be used for flipping to quickly gain VPPs. We are giving it some thought though. If we were to do this at some point in the future, it might only become available after a certain time or at a certain blind level.

Reduce/Increase length of time for rematch option
I've seen different opinions on this. I'd like to see if we can come to a general consensus in the thread.

Suggestions regarding more (or unlimited) simultaneous registrations
I can see that there are many diverse opinions on the best option for the number of simultaneously registering Sit & Gos. So far there doesn't appear to be a consensus in the thread.

We believe the current system is functioning well. However, we do realise that the smallest stakes Sit & Gos may be so popular that it is difficult to register before they start. If this is happening, please let us know and we will investigate. If necessary we could add one or two additional concurrent registrations.

Deal/Chop button
One concern we have regarding some form of chop button is that it could be used for flipping to quickly gain VPPs. We are giving it some thought though. If we were to do this at some point in the future, it might only become available after a certain time or at a certain blind level.

Please, common sense. Whoever wants to flip vpps they would still do it and sort out the difference lol, thats not stopping them from doing it.. also, thats a thing that almost no1 would like to do since u lose a ton from rake. Makes no sense.

Also this "flipping strategy" is only -ev for them and +ev for stars. Cmon.

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For those arguing that the current 2 table lobby system is best and must stay in tact....
Why was the system at FT successful?
I did not play there, so I am just assuming everything was fine based on other players comments.

The old system of FT means your ROI increases cause you play weaker opponents, but due to the large lobbies your avg. waiting time decreases and so does you hourly.

I observerved the 100s turbos traffic and you had to wait up to 20 mins in the evening cause there were like 20 open lobbies if I remember it correctly. Just take a look at NLHU Tables, how many are they? How many games run?

Hmm yeah, I was thinking it was a 50% jump but it's not. How about 6 minute levels like this:

10/20
15/30
20/40
25/50
30/60
40/80
50/100
75/100
100/200

Or a 10-minute structure similar to HORSE would work as well.

Yeah the 8-game structure is weird, although it looks a bit quicker than it actually is. From having played a ton of them my intuition is that average length is ~22-23 mins, as compared to 30 mins for LHE. Would be interesting to see if stars can provide some data to confirm that. Obviously the idea with the shorter levels is to get through more games, but in practice there's still a ridiculously strong weighting. I remember a thread where people were petitioning for randomising the game order. Personally I think the best solution by far is to have 10 minute levels and something like 5 hands per game.

Higher Buy-ins
There are certain risks and costs associated with offering Sit & Gos that are relative to the buy-in rather than a fixed overhead, such as refunds due to technical issues for example. The percentage rake on $5000 HU Sit & Gos is already very low. When you deduct the costs associated with those risks, the normal overhead and the VIP rewards for players, who at these stakes may often be Supernova+, there is very little left over. We are not eager to create additional offerings at this level of rake and players would no doubt expect rake to be even lower at higher buy-ins.

At some point in the future we may introduce a method of unregistering players from all unstarted Sit & Gos when they lose network connection with our servers. If this happens, we will evaluate the impact on the costs of offering higher buy-in Sit & Gos.

+1

With regards to multiple lobbies, I seem to remember that lower stakes HUSNGs used to have plenty and there were no problems with dozens of regs each sitting one table because they filled so fast. The higher the stakes, the less tables in the lobby imo.

Thank you for your response but what is your stance on adding a leaderboard and other promotions

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What about hiding the cashier in the rematch window? [ ] in the options menu, that it is off as default (showing cashier as default).

I also want a feedback about this.

What if you reduced or removed VPPs on chopped tables? What if you reduced or removed VPPs on chopped tables only for players with 500k+ VPPs (anything less would be giving up too much to get to the next tier level, right?).

I can't help but feel that all arguments here against more lobbies are very poor.

I don't want to necessarily convince people to change their viewpoint although i am inclined to lean towards the idea that more lobbies would be better for everyone.

I see weakish regs opensit 200/300s daily who get offended when u sit them, so this lobby system being better for the games, and keeping the weak regs out, i doubt it. Maybe at 1Ks its true tho, because you have certain people so motivated to protect there lobbies but at other stakes, the real bum hunters imo, are not the weak regs open sitting and hoping to not get sat by a better player, it are the good regs allowing the weak regs to opensit!
solely because most good regs with solid results don't want the variance (if they actively chased it they wouldn't have these solid graphs ducy?). So in that sense the real bum hunters are actually the better regs right now who stay clear and don't protect the lobby.
So how is this system preventing bum hunting? when its obviously super rewarding if you don't defend the lobby, and don't take the variance and let someone else do your dirty work?

Which is fine and up to them of course, but i don't think they should act as if they don't want weak ish regs to get a lobby by giving multiple lobbies.

also the people talking about hourly, you say more lobbies, less hourly, i wonder how is that?

Imagine ur a 200$ reg at superturbos, u wake up, register 100$ st, 200$ and 300$ lobbie and u go make ur coffee or w.e

in 5 minutes u will have at least 1 game up and if u re-reg the lobby u got action at, I'm SURE it would be fairly easy to get 3 games running the majority of the time (assuming u rematch only the fish) while it might be true to start off your session it would be somewhat slow, once u have some tables up and theres an open lobby u can instantly reg at as soon as u get a table of that stake up, it will be so easy to put in big volume.

I am 100% convinced that u lose more hourly right now, being the solid reg you probably are, who waits until he can snatch up a lobby and if a weakfish reg is quicker then him, he waits another 5 minutes and who probably plays anywhere between 15-50% of games vs other regs lifetime because of the misclick regs. Then you would if u were "waiting" while having a different table up.

Honestly, its impossible to measure or even estimate what the numbers and difference are exactly. But try and think of these factors

A main point brought to everyones attention (i hope at least) is the point ShaneO19 made:
- Grinding the lobby has become more important then being good at poker.

This is so true its absurd. No one even questioned this statement.

now imagine the sad truth between it, when u reg at same time with another reg, u most likely lose rake. Oh yeah your so much better blah blah u can beat rake vs anyone, I'm sure buddy but even if u are beating the rake an overall 0% roi will most likely reduce ur overall win rate AND your hourly as well as and it will increase your variance as well.

a second factor to consider given this point is, u have 1 table up, and u spend perhaps 70% of your attention playing the 1 table, and 30% monitoring the lobby trying to register asap into another lobby as soon as its empty. Im sure we've all had it, we timed out on a hand in a game while we were trying to be the quickest regger in the next lobby to get up 2 tables.

In other words ur hourly decreases again. and your variance increases again.

I can state many more examples why i think more lobbies could be good for everyone except lets say Skaiwalkurrr and i have no clue why i see some people here who i think are fairly intelligent argue otherwise, because their arguments don't make sense.

I hope we get into a consensus because to be honest I'm fairly sure ill play on ftp only if stars lobby stays like this, and ftp comes back. Despite the big distrust i feel towards em.

I like especially how some people argue, there are way more regs now so we need LESS lobbies. Haha ;D

I'm fairly sure that the main reason why people argue for 2 lobbies only, is either being misinformed, haven't given it enough tought, or wanting to look like a bad ass on the forums.

Wait times are long enough as is during off peak hours, please don't add anymore lobbies at the $100+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

First off all i think your observation of the situation is wrong.
There are many Regs who are chasing other regs if they see them in the lobby. Some to the point where they dont care who is sitting in the lobby, just to get an empty seat. Likes of Harthor and Siervos for example. Other Regs for example have some specific Regs which they will join to get an empty lobby.
What you mentioned that no one is sitting other regs on purpose is just wrong. Maybe it is not as often as it should be but i think the more Regs that come the more often this will happen.

*With the current lobby situation it can be profitable to join a reg if you only have 0% ROI or even with -0,5% because after joining your chance for the next empty lobby is much higher so your chance for the next Fish is much higher... so more future EV.*

All of this would be dramatically reduced if there would be unlimited lobbies.


The next point is you arguing that with unlimited lobbies it would be easy for a 200 Reg to have 3 games running all the time after a little while. This dosnt make any sense to me.
With the current system in general there will be more games than with the unlimited system because of reg vs reg (same time sit mostly). I think this is a clear fact. Agree?

So right now a 200-300 reg has not always 3 games running. Then how could it be possible, if change to unlimited, that he always has 3 games running but the total number of games goes down.

The next point is you mentioning more regs so we need less lobbies = LOL.
Let me explain it:
Back in the FTP days there were like 5-10 open lobbies at the 200 limit. I dont remember exactly. So the chance to get a fish was 10-20%. Today i can name you ~50 or more 200 Regs. On prime times there will be 30+ empty lobbies and with every month it would get worse. Now how many fishies would you get?
We have to be very careful that it will not become another HU-Cash, which in the current state is (almost) dead...


* This brings me to an improvement which will also increase the reg vs reg action.
Give the player who joins second the chance to automatically get the next empty lobby. Maybe with a check box in the registration window: [ ] take next empty lobby.

'Automatically try to register to identical tournaments if this one is already full' option covers this. Its regs that are fighting over tables at higher stakes that seems to be causing problems.

+1

and DO NOT add more lobbies please !!!

I much prefer 3-4 lobbies against unlimited. No one discussed this yet. Fastcolt is right, rewarding poker players profit by having better lobby taking skills is beyond ******ed, hell, i play poker.. not " pick da lobby " competition

I really don't hear any valid arguments against more lobbies.
Really think about it, i really don't see the downside at all.
Despite also wanting what is best of course, like I'm sure everyone wants to.

Its proven fact pretty much that the regs who have the highest roi and the biggest win rate/least variance are the ones who do not chase other regs out of lobbies, but instead bum hunt hard.
Your so afraid of turning it into HU CASH (which can't happen either way) but if you truly are, then why do you prefer a system (the current one) that is MOST beneficial to those who bum hunt and avoid regs as much as possible? can you answer that even?

Edit fwiw; I'm only debating considering ST's i have no clue about the turbo/reg speed situation and don't want to pretend like i do.