i agree with getting rid of the superturbos. i am husng regular on fulltilt as well

This. Private/challenge games would be awesome.

and +1 for "Grandmaster" leaderboard by stakes. Just sounds like alot of fun to me. Probably cause more regs to play each other, fish challenging ranked players... can't see a bad side to this

I agree there is a problem with the superturbos, but think lowering the rake and not changing the structure is the best solution. If turbo SNG players are worried about players going to the supers instead, then making them more like a normal husng [i.e. somewhat deeper, even if it is only to 20bb] will take more players away.

Superturbos are a different type of game and making them more similar to the other tournaments will just hurt the overall player pool in each game. Keep the structure at 10bb, but decrease the rake.

I disagree. Changing the structure slightly would make these a very interesting gametype, without taking too much away from the "omgz0rzGAMB00000000L" mindset, and would also make them beatable with the current rake. Doing both would obviously be ideal IMO, because edges are always going to be extremely thin.

Just lost a game because I disconnected - by the time I reconnected I had next to nothing left and didn't stand a chance. In a 6max or FR tournament by the time you've charged down the hall, rebooted the modem, and reconnected you've lost maybe 4 or 5 BB from sitting out. In a husng it pretty much loses you the game.

It kinda evens out with the amount of times I benefited from having my opponent disconnect, but it still sucks. Can it be changed so that you don't sit out so quickly - maybe a disconnect timebank of 3 minutes or something? Plus when your opponent is sitting out make it a bit slower for the sitting out player to fold (at least to the time a regular player decides to fold).

People timing out is tilting enough to wait for. I tried PokerStars for a while and one thing that made me appreciate Full Tilt was PS' awful, awful policy with regards to disconnects.

Big difference between someone timing out deliberately or because they're a slow thinker and someone having a network problem. FT can obviously detect whether it's a disconnect or someone doing nothing (since 'Disconnect' appears in their seat).

The thing that's the worst is that someone hammering the bet button can so rapidly run through your stack (I've even seen advice on here on how to make it as quick as possible). It's nice of the dealer to join in and go manic dealing as fast as possible! Very accommodating of him...

Stars also refunds users, especially when something happens between their server and Stars.

It's not our fault the servers go through like 50 zillion locations, that's a part of the business you are in and you should pay for the lesser quality that users will experience as a result. Stars does, unfortunately FTP has instances where half the users disconnect and they still give out an initial denial email when contacted.

I don't think I've disconnected without coming back shortly after on Stars more than a few times in my 6,000+ games played there. That's over $30,000 in rake paid and I believe they have refunded me every single time, costing them perhaps $300. It's not enough to keep me on Stars, but it contributes as to why I've played a majority of my games there lifetime.

What's the point of Matrix HUSNGs? It can be functionally created by an "add an extra table" feature, which allows for more flexibility. The point of the current Matrix tournaments is the Matrix pool, which doesn't really work with 2 players.

I've been refunded for every disconnect on FTP despite them saying (truthfully) that the disconnects were not their fault. They were also not my fault (my internet was up), and they "manned up" and refunded my buyins.

I haven't disconnected in a game since I was playing 30s, but FTP support has gotten better since then, not worse.

Reset stacks/blinds in the 4 person HU shootouts?!?

+1 for promotions. If the promotions were HUSNG specific it would bring even more fish to the games.
+1 for leader boards
+1 for FFFFFF super turbos
+1 private games
+1 add another table
+1 for seeing whos sitting w/o opening the lobby

How many emails on average did this take?

Your experience seems to run contrary to many players (both low and high stakes) that have seen the same issues.

It's also kind of a cop out for them to say it's not on their end, no? Don't they purposely run through a tremendous amount of foreign servers before a user gets to their "home base?"

I mean, when half your users disconnect, it's kind of on you, and if it's not then you need to clearly state to users before signing up "From time to time up to half our users may disconnect from the client. This is usually not our fault, and when it is not we will not refund any in play money." I kind of doubt as many people would play on a site that was honest about that.

You see the problem here though?

ftp did NOT refund me when i disconnected. it probably wasn't their fault, but it wasn't mine either. my internet was up. it was a $220 and i have paid about 40k in rake(not counting rakeback)

My own personal experience is a lot closer to sejje's. I've had a few refunds where I got disconnected, but my internet was still live. I just figure it's a good-will measure on their part, even while they're proclaiming it's "not their fault".

But realistically, we can bitch about that "not our fault" stance all we want, but it's simply the truth almost 100% of the time. Full Tilt doesn't have any control whatsoever over the paths that people take to get to their site, and there's absolutely nothing they can do to improve the situation. That's just life on the internet.

I do agree they handled the situation where half of all the users disconnected very poorly though. Clearly it wasn't actually their fault, but due to an interruption in some bottleneck somewhere, but 50% of everybody is a lot of pissed-off people, most of whom don't understand anything more than "my internet was still live, so it wasn't *my* connection, therefore it must be *your* fault!" When such a large percentage of your users have the same problem at the same time, I would think it would be in your best interest to do something about it, regardless of where the actual failure occurred. At the very least, a widespread dropout like that compromises the integrity of any tournaments that are running at the time.

Isn't anyone else bothered by the fact that unless you reconnect within a minute or so you'll have lost half your stack? (given that this thread is about improving husngs)

Tonight FT hung and crashed on me and I managed to restart it in time to rescue the game (I was $2500 and got back into the game at $1100 - that's in the time it takes to run FT and log-in which isn't very long at all), plus one disconnection that was my modem (rebooted modem and got back in with $500 left again after having over $2k) and finally tonight I've played two games where my opponents disconnected (one came back, the other didn't).

The players who disconnected didn't even time down - one second they were online, next they were instafolding everything. I think this is really wrong, and if there's a disconnect I want at least a few minutes grace to get back into the game without losing the majority of my stack.

I don't think refunds is a solution to this.

I don't see much of an issue with disconnects. If disconnects are just as likely to happen to you as anyone else, your expectation from them is zero. Giving extra time is just as likely to hurt you as help you, but wastes your time when you're the connected player, meaning a net overall loss.

your games start at the same time/blind. getting 3 tables against the same opponent every time. players that don't multitable would probably try this and get comfortable multitabling. which should increase the chance that they would add another table with you. players would play higher at the the same rate thus generating more rake. If you just add 2 more tables against villain and go 2-1 your up 1 buyin -rake, in matrix you go 2-1 your up 3 buyins -rake assuming your play 3x higher matrix and the loser doesn't get paid for his one win. it probably deserves another name but im sure it would be easyer to just add it to the matrix lobby

I like both matrix and add a table think that they would benefit for each other

or they could call it "best of 3" and put it in the husng lobby

+1

I have been a long time lurker to 2p2 but i found this thread so important that i had to register to responsed. I have been playing HUSNGs and ftp for over 3 years now mostly at the 110 and 220 buyin levels where i have been a decent winner. I have noticed that the games at these levels have been filling up slower and slower. So while i was wait for games to start i started to mess around with the super tubros. Well after some success in the begining i recently tilted off close to 10k. I know i showed a lack of disapline and i should have stopped but i didnt. So now i am most likely going to take my action to stars until the super turbos are gone or fixed. I think it is very important to at least get rid of the 160s. At the lower levels there are so many games going on that the super turbos are not making it any more difficult to find a game but the 100 and 200 levels have suffered greatly from the super turbos. I hope FTP will seriously look at fixing a game that is unbeatable in the long run.

To start with kudo´s for this thread and FTPDoug participating. A few obvious points, most of which run contrary to FTP´s interest, so I doubt a high rate of success. Anyway:

1. Lower the rake. You´re taking too much money out of the HU sng economy. In order for the player to make as much as FTP does in rake, the player will have to win 55% of his games. Do you know how hard that is, creating a 10% edge over say 15-60 hands on average? If you have never tried it, eiher do so or take our word for it. In order to make acceptable money without having to play idiotic volume (and that becoming harder with the games filling less quickly) you have to win about 57-58% of your games. That takes a REALLY good player starting at the $100+5 buyin level. That means an edge of 14% to 16% ON AVERAGE in the same short timespan mentioned earlier. That is how bad the rake hurts.

2. As many have said before do SOMETHING about the superturbo´s, especially at the $160 buyin level, they are killing the $100 and $200 games. Preferably eliminate them, option B increase stacks. These arent super turbo´s, these are flipping contests and taking away from the poker is skill argument.

3. Make HU sng´s, the macho man-to-man combat, somehow part of your advertisement campaigns. It does have some very good selling points, especially with (and around) the NBC HU Tournament getting the coverage it does.

4. The lobby might need to be restyled a little to make it easier to differentiate between the various games, limits and setups.

5. Adding a best of three option (not matrix style) to decide the winner of a match would be great IMO. It would definitely make me try higher limits. It reduces variance, you get more bang (hands) for your buck and it might add a little bit to the skill needed to beat an opponent. i.e. he sucked out on you in an ugly manner, but you still have a chance to draw the match and ultimately beat him.

6. Improve the FT points store for Euro players. The US store is much better.


Some positives too...the choice of structure between the regs and turbo´s is great. Don´t change anything there, the structure is the best on the internet. The open lobby system is great too, not forcing more or less equally skilled regs to play each other. Maybe max it out at ten though, although that is a number that I have never seen, but with the trend as it is, it might happen sooner rather than later. And yeah, show the name of the sitting player in the lobby.

Thanks for taking the time to do this FTPDoug. We would be even more thankful if you pick up on some of our suggestions :-)

Super Turbo's are wayyyy too popular...Havent you seen how quick they fill?

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER GET RID OF THE $160'S!!!

Besides there is always at least 4/5 $160's running constantly so good luck with that

You realize they are unbeatable, right?

1

No, not "purposely." That's the nature of the internet---the connections get piped through certain bottlenecks---for instance most of the US might go through one server (or several in a row, but all the same) to get to FTP's server in canada. The one/several servers are not under FTP's control.

Without an internet overhaul, this will continue to be the case for a long time.

+1 for this and the choose of stake you wish to play villain for. Anything with some options but not too much that confuses villain.