How many good players don't use a HUD?.. Is it possible to do well without one? Discuss.

Not really much to discuss, hourly in hypers is all about games per hour; if you play more than one table at a time, a HUD will give you an edge you can't get unless you are super talented at following reads across 2+ tables.

One tabling will improve your sense of gameflow, your hand reading skills, and your ability to exploit opponent tendencies.

if you could work out very good strategy you wouldn`t need hud/adjustments/gameflow skills/hand reading. Unfortunately, afaik we can only do it for <4bb

Edit: have no idea about how 500s+ regs are paying. Maybe they are much closer to it than i think

For Turbos, livb never used one until the end of his career, isildur1 still doesn't. It is definitely possible to adapt very well without using a HUD.

Edit: Not that I would recommend it :P

Perfect equilibrium strategy is not very good if you plan to make any serious money from playing poker. So unless you have a very good sense for ranges and frequencies, hud is a must.

A strategy that would crush the absolute best players is not very good at making money? My strategy must be really, really bad then.

It is possible to do well without a hud, but using a hud is a very helpful tool and you need strong reasons not to use it.(eg. you want to improve your exploiting opponents tendencies skill using just gameflow and not a hud)

first of all, i didn't said its bad i said its not very good since every signle player has leaks so various exploitve stragies have better expectation than GTO.

lets put it this way:
if GTO strategy can beat best high stakes players, that means that they are making mistakes(have leaks), so if they are making mistakes you shouldn't go for unexploitable strategy, you should apply stategy that exploite their mistakes, thats how you make most money.
same like open-shoving AA 20 bb deep, it is +EV but not most profitable option, so we can say its not very good play to shove AA 20 bb deep, same with GTO.

and do you realy think all best high stakes milionares got there by playing GTO? lol

sorry for bad English

GTO means you make money everytime anyone makes any mistake. High stakes millionaires wish they could play GTO. See Kanu/Ike quotes above.

i think you didn't understood a thing i wrote...

yes GTO makes money evertime anyone make mistake, but exploative strategy makes more money than GTO vs same mistake. obviously perfect exploative stategies are very hard to learn so is the GTO strategy.

so basicly if you want to make as much money as possible you should try to master strategies that exploit not GTO since they have better expetation.

This is a completely baseless statement. You have absolutely no idea what gto strategy looks like so I don't know why you think you can arrive at an informed conclusion as to what strategy has the highest wr.

Sure, in an ideal world we would apply a strategy that maximally exploits our opponents. Unfortunately in the real world the likes of Skai and mrgreen haven't been kind enough to write down their strategy so people can find a maximally exploitative response.

It is correct that in a perfect world where your opponent writes down his strategy, hands it to you and agrees not to change it at all in the duration of your matches maximally exploitative> gto. In the real world this not happening means I can't form the perfect responses whereas a gto strategy would not rely on knowing your opponents range so can always be implemented. I, as do a lot of people, try and achieve a strategy that is maximally exploitative each game. However, lack of perfect information means that none of us can ever do this.

No, I do not think this. They didn't make millions by playing gto because they did not have the option to play gto. They didn't actively choose their strategy over gto. In fact Kanu/Ike/Sauce (all millionaires) are known to take more of an unexploitable approach to poker (I'm also pretty sure I've seen livb say his strategy is designed to beat anyone and mrgreen say something similar in his pgc thread) where they don't have to change their game much based on villains (although they probably do when someone shows an obviously exploitative tendency). Given they make millions and are trying to move towards the gto approach it is inferred that said strategy would be preferred over any other.

Both are hard to learn, yes. The difference is in practice a perfectly exploitative strategy is impossible to implement (bar rare cases like someone open jamming 100%) whereas a gto one is not.

So what you are saying is Ike/Kanu/Sauce, three of the absolute top players, have got their approach to poker all wrong?

play gto vs. high stake regs. gl with figuring out the gto strat.

play exploitative strat vs. weaker players

hud is not required for hypers if you can keep track of villain's frequencies. but is recommended if you multi table as it is easy to lose track.

you dont need gto strat, you can do very solid readless strat, bumhunt hard and you wil do very good. We are not as good as we think in our exploitative game anyway.

Yeah, +1 all of this.

perfect GTO is also equally impossible to implement for a human. Unless you are making a bot, trying to beat whole HU NL holdem with a single strategy is waste of time, and gl achiving it.

I've never touched a HUD, probably the reason why I'm stuck where I am now

I also don't play with a hud do u have skype? what stakes do u play etc

also is their any1 who will coach players without an hud?

If you have money to spend on coaching why not just buy pt4/use HUD?

Cliffs: use a HUD