This should read 'if we make the shove at -0.5BB, is our expected stack 950 or 850?

still 850

So does that mean we should only make decisions that are greater than 0 EV, rather than decisions that are greater than -1BB EV?

The reason i ask is because of the mersenneary ebook, he says u should make any play that is greater than -1BB in EV.

Your answer seems to imply that the calculation takes the -1BB into account so you should avoid any play that is less than 0EV rather than any play greater than -1BB.

In other words, should we fold if the EV is less than 0 or less than -0.9BB?

Yes it does. basicaly >0EV is better than folding

In Mersenneary's book he talks about EV from the begining of the hand (before posting) so his -1BB (the cost of the blind) is equivalent to my 0BB. -1BB before posting 1BB is the same than 0BB after posting that 1 BB.

The reason he is using calculation from the beginning of the hand (I believe) is that it's easier then to compare it to your actual results as in your tracker the BB cost is included in the results.

as a result note that a shove >0EV in my tool is still -EV from the beginning of the hand till it's > 1BB but better than folding anyhow.

(confused yet?)

here is a very valuable tip:

because your EV of calling in the BB is very likely going to be between 0 and 1, the closer to 0EV it is in the calculator the closer it's likely a call will be the best play, the closer to 1 it is the more likely a shove will the best play.

(not taking into account hand playability)

Thanks.

Add me on skype, i PMed u

Below is a typical pfr for villain of 65.91%, bb after posting is 16BB, exclude 22-55, std. villain 3bet-calling range. According to your tool, everything is > 0EV, so every hand is better off shoving than folding? So it is better for me to 3bet-shove 72o than fold it against a standard 3bet-shove calling range?

That's correct.



That's why most reg slow down at ~15BB. Also note that this calling range is REALLY tight for 16BB. villain folds ~ 73% of the time!

what games do you play genher, out of interest. Im a mid-high stakes HU sng reg

The villain range is actually ~83% fold, and you have this as your standard range. I think maybe your 'loose 1' should be standard, maybe even 'loose 2', as this one is probably not very realistic as a standard range @ these stacks. I.e., @ 17bb (16bb after posting bb), I'm calling a shove with any Ace, your standard range starts at A7o+/A6s+. That's why I posted this. Thoughts on perhaps fine-tuning the villain calling range? or maybe adding a few more?

PS: I am not trying to be anal, I love your 3bet calculator, great job, just adding my insight. Hope you don't take offense.

I believe he mentioned he's a 60's reg.

I am working on a much better one.

Instead of showing your EV this one will show the %PFR required for EV=0 and EV=1.
>0EV is better than folding. >1BB and 3 bet will likely be the best play. therefore, in between, would indicate that calling is probably the best play as EV of a call is likely between 0 and 1 (that's a bit simplified but you get the idea). Obv still taking into account card removal and stuffs.
This information will be much more valuable then just the EV of a 3 bet shove.

As for the calling ranges, I can now (thanks to the alias trick from tigerjack89) get more exact ranges for different critical stack sizes. From there I should be able to get a few pretty accurate loose, average and tight ranges for different critical stack sizes.

So I probably will do 3 or 4 options (from loose to tight) and the ranges will automatically be suggested depending on stack size. So for instance if you classify your player as loose it will suggest a loose range at 20 BB (obtain from the general population sample) but at 15BB it will suggest an even looser range and so on. That should be pretty cool.

Would people be interested in this? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Already using your 3bet shoving calculator a lot, so would definitely be very very interested in this! Thanks a lot for your work, you're too good to us

Thanks a lot! When giving it the BB depth, should I add the BB from posting like in NASH?

BTW guys: LibreOffice 3.6 was just released.

it's BB after posting here

Yeah man, I'm interested too.

Yes indeed
Nah I'd probably pass on the download lol of course it would be fantastic!

Easy suggestion: toggle for "remove the posted BB from amounts". I work almost entirely in pre-posting BBs, I'm probably not the only one (pretty sure the HEM / TN / PT HUDS display only BBs before posting too).

Feeling ambitious? Link the sheet directly to postgresql, do away with the need for an alias and have the sheet auto-pull various range tendencies from whatever sample each player has of their own games / vs their own style... vs. general population or drill down to a specific player

hmm its just showing code or something when i open it in openoffice. Trying to learn this silly software.

open it in calc

ya ya ya i did that. im playing and trying to figure it out at the same time so my progress is slow in getting it running lol

ya i must be OO noob caus i open it up in calc and it still opens as a document

ya that's easy. Can do that

Too ambitious I think unless you have an equity calculator code for excel!? Also I am not too keen on starting to mess around with people postgreql database.

Actually... might just be able to make that, not sure. Also not sure if speed would be near acceptable. Preflop equity calc in pure excel functions would be an amusing lol challenge though Will experiment when I get time.

Glad to be helpful
Anyhow, if you want some help on formulas and something like that, feel free to pm me. I have made a simple excel calculator; I have all the formulas for "minimum fold equity for EV push = x", "minimum PFR for EV push = x", "minimum EQUITY for EV push = x" and "minimum STACK SIZE for EV push = x". X could change because we can take into account the EV of folding our big blind.
Although, I've just learned something more from your last replies on the EV after posting the BB, so thanks for that