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Old 03-01-2019, 04:30 PM   #1
ChicagoRy
 
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Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

They are now banned. If you are using a HUD, including, but not limited to CoffeeHUD or CoffeeSpins, simply delete the charts. We're not overwriting your HUD, so it won't reupdate and add the charts.

You can't use these during gameplay on PokerStars.

Shoot me an email if you have any quick questions, I'm spread thin for a few days and may not get to check this thread (but will try).
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Cheers!
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:32 PM   #2
Tcarnage
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

1. Click "hud"
2. Click "Edit Profiles Options"
3. Click "assign Popups"

Delete the 3 Nash options

So it looks like this

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Old 03-02-2019, 07:49 PM   #3
Avenger655
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

It's still very unclear to me how exactly are they gonna enforce people not having nash or GTO push/fold charts printed on paper. The only way i can think of is freezing someone playing suspiciously flawless push/fold without any mistakes even for 0.1-2 Big Blinds, and than requesting a recorded play. But even then i can't imagine how it will happen, it's unlikely you get enough push/fold situations in 2 hours or sth video to make any conclusions, also there is always the possibility of differing due to reads, making mistakes under the pressure of making such a video, even if you have memorized perfectly the 2 charts. Absolutely idiotic by pokerstars, creating more and more and more grey areas in the ToS.

But i have to admit it's a struggle to play without the pusher/caller charts, i have decent memory and i thought i knew them pretty well, but still making up to 0.5bb mistakes. I guess if everybody miraculously stopped using them that can create a bit of an edge, since not everyone will be able to memorize them well enough, and will be making slight mistakes at least. Though i'm sure nothing like this will happen and 50%+ of the people will have them printed in front of them.

Btw is there some form that having this information is allowed - maybe not in a form of a chart, but something else? like 8bb 22+ Ax Kx type of format
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:39 AM   #4
Bluenowhere
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger655 View Post
It's still very unclear to me how exactly are they gonna enforce people not having nash or GTO push/fold charts printed on paper. The only way i can think of is freezing someone playing suspiciously flawless push/fold without any mistakes even for 0.1-2 Big Blinds, and than requesting a recorded play. But even then i can't imagine how it will happen, it's unlikely you get enough push/fold situations in 2 hours or sth video to make any conclusions, also there is always the possibility of differing due to reads, making mistakes under the pressure of making such a video, even if you have memorized perfectly the 2 charts. Absolutely idiotic by pokerstars, creating more and more and more grey areas in the ToS.

But i have to admit it's a struggle to play without the pusher/caller charts, i have decent memory and i thought i knew them pretty well, but still making up to 0.5bb mistakes. I guess if everybody miraculously stopped using them that can create a bit of an edge, since not everyone will be able to memorize them well enough, and will be making slight mistakes at least. Though i'm sure nothing like this will happen and 50%+ of the people will have them printed in front of them.

Btw is there some form that having this information is allowed - maybe not in a form of a chart, but something else? like 8bb 22+ Ax Kx type of format
I don't want to speculate on possible methods too much but I think you largely overestimate how hard it is to see, and/or how easy it would be to obfuscate.

As for your criticism of the new rules, I feel it is unwarranted. Personally I think they are a good addition to the current set of rules and actually remove a lot of the grey area. As of now there are clearly some charts that convey too much information, but the line is ill-defined and as long as that is the case regs/stables will continue to push the line and pokerstars will have difficulty acting against these instances since its hard to say with a high level of certainty somebody actually did break the ToS.

These new rules (especially the banning of even nash-like charts) make this far easier to define and enforce, creating an even playing field between regs (without making anyone feel like they need to push the limit). In the last two years or so they have been significantly more competent, and historically they have been relatively unwilling to change things they feel they can't enforce. With that in mind, that they are willing to change the ToS to such an extent makes me believe they are confident they can enforce it.

From what I can infer from reading I would think that is allowed, but the amount of information you could convey in such a way is very limited. So if you had that for every (or even many) hand I would think that goes against the rules. I think the intent of this rule is to be not so limited that a recreational who uses some basic open ranges contravenes the rules but not so broad that a reg who uses it for more detailed situations (i.e. when to mix hands, when to 3b, when you can os diff hands in diff positions) does. If you are to use anything I would advise e-mailing pokerstars what you wish to use and having them pass comment. Personally I think the ev gained from having such basic advice is so insignificant that I will play with zero charts of any nature and would recommend others do the same.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:37 AM   #5
ChicagoRy
 
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

Thanks a bunch Tcarnage for making it crystal clear.

We're also pushing new versions out for any new buyers of the HUDs. The only difference will be no charts included (a non Stars buyer from March 1st 2019+ can request a Nash popup version if they prefer and I can add them there instead, the Nash charts are also on the PT4 download warehouse free too for anyone that wants to add them to any HUD off Stars).
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:46 PM   #6
Proszpero
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

Is coffeehud still halal after yesterday's ban on autofiltering by stack size?
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:06 AM   #7
valuecutting
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

Yes, because no stat automatically changes based on stack depth. For example 30-17 limp displays the same number no matter what stack depth your opponent is.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:34 PM   #8
ChicagoRy
 
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Re: Nash Charts for HUDs on PokerStars

We should be all good Proszpero. I've been in contact with Stars since February and outside of the Nash Charts haven't had any issues come up.
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