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Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

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Old 12-10-2017, 07:52 PM   #1
8DecksNoHoleCard
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Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

(I'm cross posting this from the beginners thread - hope that's ok - thought it might get a response with a thread of its own).

I like spin & go's. I want to get good enough to be able to beat $15 spin and gos by a good amount. I understand the basic concepts of poker but I wouldn't say I'm a particularly good player. I have a decent background in stats so I'm familiar with concepts like +EV/variance/ranges/nash/etc. I don't mind spending some money on the right video pack/book/software since I'm doing this for the challenge, not the money. Given all that:

What's the best way to go about getting good enough to beat the $15 spins? Should I join a stable/study group? Buy this video pack https://www.husng.com/content/beating-spin-go-poker ? Do I have to do specific work on HUSNG play to get good enough for this stake level?

And: so far I've been playing on GG Network as I don't use a HUD and they are HUDless. But I assume to improve on my play I need to start tracking my results, right? Should I start playing on stars with a HUD? Or maybe party poker, as I can track my own results there and still play HUDless?

Many thanks for any advice! I know spins may not be the best place to start if I want a career in poker, but I enjoy the format and I'm doing this for the challenge.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:52 PM   #2
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

Probably a stable is best for the first 20k games, you get the coaching + opportunity to move up quickly in stakes. But don't sign for 50k games.

You sacrifice some profit, but you only need to double your average stake to make it back (in a 50/50 deal) + you should expect an increase in EVROI. There are some people who made it w/o the structure of a stable. But i bet most guys on 100's were signed at some point.

Oh and don't do it for the challenge, you'll be sitting in front of a pc for 200h a month. Do it for the money
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:54 PM   #3
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

If you just want to get as good as you possibly can as quickly as possible and you don't care if it costs you money/equity up front, one of the top few stables would be a good idea.

The video pack you link is a great starter pack for your level of play too, it won't cost you much relative to a private coach and will cover a lot of the basics well, but after you get those down there's really no substitute for a good 1 on 1 coach/mentor (and most of the good ones you'll find in a stable).

Playing on a non HUD site means your opponents also don't have access to a HUD. How are you doing in those games? For your specific case of doing it more for the challenge and not the money, I'd probably move to Stars, grab the video pack, play a lot of games and see where you end up, with an eye on building a small winning sample to apply to a stable.

Hold off on the HUD until you decide if you'll join a stable, many stables have custom HUDs they provide their horses for a discount or free of charge, so no reason to spend $100 on a top public HUD if you'll just end up joining a stable in 1-3 months.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:18 PM   #4
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

Thanks for the tips guys! 200h/month sounds like a lot. I've already got my own gig going, I do professional gambling with an edge and make decent money, and that eats up most of my time. That's why I'm wary of a stable because I figure they'd expect more of a time commitment than I could provide

That's why I said this is more of a personal challenge. Do you think that video pack would get me good enough to beat the $15s?

Dont get me wrong - if it works for me maybe I will take it more seriously in the future. But right now this is a challenge I want to do on the side and that's why I'm looking for a way to do it on my own terms

Edit: ofc if I've got it wrong and there exist stables that don't need big time/volume commitments then I'm all ears for that
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:29 AM   #5
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

It's really difficult to answer how far the pack will get you, but I've got some input on how to get the most from it. When I watched videos and came across a better alternative to my normal approach I'd make a note of it somewhere that I'd see it regularly. A post-it on the bottom of my monitor worked well. It becomes progressively harder to find leaks in your game so it's important that you get them sealed away when you find them.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:52 PM   #6
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

When you talk about doing a challenge part time, it really depends a lot more on you personally than anything else.

For example, some stables can just churn out fairly robotic players that are trained to do similar stuff in similar spots against the field and grind for 30-40+ hrs a week and win money in the $15-30s. This is 2017's version of 2010's volume grinder (guys that were good enough to have a small edge per table but had the ability to just play 40+ hrs a week of 4 tables and they'd make good money post rakeback doing it).

But it's a lot harder to do that if you play 10-15 hrs a week. There have been a lot of players historically that can make a good hourly playing little, but they usually tend to be more naturally strategically intelligent players in my observations.

No video pack or coach is going to guarantee you make money at any level, but the video pack contains the information to really help you beat the lower levels, including $15s. If you study it, have a strong mentality that can handle the short term swings (which are drawn out longer in real time due to lower volume) then I think you'll have a good shot at beating the $15s in the near to mid term.

I'd give you the same answer for $7s. If you asked about $60s I'd say no across the board, full time across the board and more emphasis on a stable (though not required).

If you're more impulsive, get frustrated with poker at times, take time off when busy, don't treat it serious enough, then I think you're a dog to beat $15s consistently any time in 2018.
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:27 PM   #7
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSCWx View Post
It's really difficult to answer how far the pack will get you, but I've got some input on how to get the most from it. When I watched videos and came across a better alternative to my normal approach I'd make a note of it somewhere that I'd see it regularly. A post-it on the bottom of my monitor worked well. It becomes progressively harder to find leaks in your game so it's important that you get them sealed away when you find them.
thanks for the tip - I will definitely use something along these lines. I tend to keep a list of my leaks in a OneNote file and review it regularly
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:30 PM   #8
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
When you talk about doing a challenge part time, it really depends a lot more on you personally than anything else.

...

If you're more impulsive, get frustrated with poker at times, take time off when busy, don't treat it serious enough, then I think you're a dog to beat $15s consistently any time in 2018.

Thanks for the reply! Tells me everything I need to know. I'll be fine with the variance for sure, I swing down much bigger amounts in my money-making gambling gig than I will playing $15s.

One thing I don't understand is:

Quote:
But it's a lot harder to do that if you play 10-15 hrs a week. There have been a lot of players historically that can make a good hourly playing little, but they usually tend to be more naturally strategically intelligent players in my observations.
Why would making a good -hourly- be harder with less time/week? I thought my hourly would be the same, maybe even higher than the volume grinders as I focus more on average, just that my total weekly income would be low. Or are you saying that that's not enough time to improve well enough?
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:55 PM   #9
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

when xSCWx is commenting on your thread in 2017 you know you said something important.

as for OP, the House is really a choice of preference and I would look for the best $/h in Spins. 2 reasons:
1/ you may learn quicker by playing more games/hands per hour
2/ if you're good enough for the stakes you're playing, you'll make more $ while still learning.

So it is really up to you, however, I couldn't emphasize this enough - a good personal coach (who's genuinely interested in you getting better) is much better than any legit stable or video packs (although these are good learning materials as well). It might cost more in a short-term, but would probably be the most +EV decision in the long term.
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Old 12-11-2017, 11:14 PM   #10
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8DecksNoHoleCard View Post
Or are you saying that that's not enough time to improve well enough?
Beating poker as a casual is just difficult. Even people who are not that naturally talented but have good mindset, good basic strategy, and are more motivated to improve will off course have an edge. Also experience of player (regular or recreational) tendency's is important in a pool.

If you shoot me a PM, i'll share some outdated content with you, it can be a starting point at least. (I have no interest in selling any kind of content that I would consider significant.) But you'll need some kind of summary, so a videopack would be a good option. Not as good as a coach (if you can find a good one), but quite a bit cheaper. There are quite a lot of options; I have never bought one, but husng.com has a good reputation. In any case, you don't need state of the art, just a good summary and basic ranges and postflop plans.

edit:

To be clear, 60h/month won't make you any significant $ or make you good enough to beat $60's+. But it can be fun, poker is a pretty fun game
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:51 PM   #11
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Re: Most efficient way for a beginner to learn spin & gos

I played around 1000 1$ spin n gos and have a winrate of apprx 10%. I am considering to join a staking group mainly due to the advanced coaching which they are known to be giving. Do you guys can recommend any good staking firm? I am considering husng or smartspin. Is there any other better staking available in terms of coaching part? I would appreciate any suggestions or experience from you guys in this matter.
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