Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Middle pair against turn shove Middle pair against turn shove

10-24-2020 , 11:48 AM
PokerStars, €9.20 + €0.80 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

case1996 (SB): 715 (24 bb)
pensodasolo (BB): 785 (26 bb)

Pre-Flop: (45) Hero (pensodasolo) is BB with K T
case1996 (SB) calls 15, pensodasolo (BB) raises to 90, case1996 (SB) calls 60

Flop: (180) T 6 5 (2 players)
pensodasolo (BB) bets 63, case1996 (SB) calls 63

Turn: (306) Q (2 players)
pensodasolo (BB) bets 180, case1996 (SB) raises to 562 (all-in), pensodasolo (BB) ?
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 11:58 AM
pretty much same as with 66 on 344

/// I'd call A9o+ A6s+ 55+ ///
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 12:23 PM
I would size a decent amount bigger on this board on the flop.

Snapcalling turn. Not close imo.
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 12:26 PM
interesting.
id size it smaller and fold., OTT
but OTF absolutely bigger. sooo much will call a street

/// I'd call A9o+ A6s+ 55+ ///
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 12:32 PM
I think when SPR gets very low, villain just jams here for protection way too often for us to fold given the odds we are getting. Idk this is just a snap for me and I feel like I see a decent amount of stuff I dominate when I call, and that's been true for years across a lot of sites/different player pools. I'm not happy about it, but I def feel I have more than the 27% equity needed to call vs population.

I agree size smaller turn though. We don't want to fold out so many hands we beat. I guess if we size as small as hero did on flop, and then small turn size too I would fold. However, I never size so small on the flop here w KT.
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 12:33 PM
thanks for the insight.

/// I'd call A9o+ A6s+ 55+ ///
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 01:11 PM
I snap called this one. But i think that against reg this might be a fold.
Yeah Ev suggested me to change the format, glad that you like
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-24-2020 , 02:18 PM
Would you size it bigger on the flop fearing overcards that may float, the 6 and 5, both?
would you size it big also with a lower kicker?
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-25-2020 , 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pensodasolo
Would you size it bigger on the flop fearing overcards that may float, the 6 and 5, both?
would you size it big also with a lower kicker?
I think we just lose value w 1/3 pot bet - sure some additional hands call like J9 w backdoor flush draw or something, but we also get less value from 6x/5x a lot of times bc they will fold to turn barrels on a bunch of runouts. Many players play a lot worse vs the larger sizing on volatile textures too....raising way too much for protection w 6x and even 5x sometimes (this is really important imo). Our particular hand benefits from some protection.

Sizing down some w low kickers (if we iso them) seems good to me, but not really sure. Obviously these hands prefer protection more than KT, but at same time we don't want to narrow villains continuation range as much too. If I cbet 1/3 pot w T2o (if I iso it), for example, I'm not 2 barreling this combo on many turns...going into bluffcatcher mode w it in practice a lot I think - villains can continue vs the 1/3 pot bet w a very wide range. Curious what others think.

Last edited by HokieGreg; 10-25-2020 at 02:38 AM.
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-25-2020 , 02:36 AM
it is fat value spot OTF
i bet less tho than 2/3, aiming to take me opponent slowly to the river where they feel just too invested to fold with river spr wheres OTT i feel them will fold those low pairs to bigger bets/jams

anyhow cool answer from. HokieGreg
will look into those more closely.

/// I'd call A9o+ A6s+ 55+ ///
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-25-2020 , 04:20 AM
Thanks, very interesting. I think I would check hands like T2 on the flop to try to extract value on turn, but I should probably try to cbet come of them
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-25-2020 , 04:29 AM
u ain't going to have much weaker Tx here than JT.

/// I'd call A9o+ A6s+ 55+ ///
Middle pair against turn shove Quote
10-25-2020 , 01:35 PM
seems like a call from range perspective , you dont have much more better hands at all , only Qx , AT , JJ are kind of better than KT , and of course KK+ 2 pairs
Middle pair against turn shove Quote

      
m