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KQ in 3bet pot KQ in 3bet pot

11-06-2011 , 06:08 PM
A hand i reviewed recently and thought was very intresting.It's second hand of the match and i don't have any reads on villain.Don't like my play at all so feel free to fire...

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10978482

BB: 1,610 (80.5 bb)
Hero (SB): 1,390 (69.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
Hero raises to 60, BB raises to 160, Hero calls 100

Flop: (320) 9 T 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 165, BB raises to 380, Hero raises to 1,230 and is all-in, BB calls 850

Turn: (2,780) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (2,780) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

[spoil]Results: 2,780 pot
Final Board: 9 T 6 5 3
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-06-2011 , 06:11 PM
I b/f half pot on the flop, because I believe check is weak on flop.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-06-2011 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitheone
I b/f half pot on the flop, because I believe check is weak on flop.
yeah this. I think less than half pot is even better. like 120. seeing folds is nice, flats are nice too since your hand is going to play really well on the turn and river. And just snap fold when he raises you--just think about his check flop range, and that should tell you that his c/r range on flop is going to have you crushed and lacking any fold equity.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-06-2011 , 06:50 PM
In 3 bet pots I check back a lot when I have equity (only betting w/air and value hands). I know this in itself is unbalanced but I don't think it matters at low stakes since you won't have a decent sample of 3BP against any single player.

Checking behind with things like bottom pair (if they've 3 Bet small pre etc) and draws and getting to showdown for cheap is the way forward IMO.

OBVIOUS STATEMENT: By checking back you give yourself the opportunity of making the best hand on the turn/river instead of trying to buy the pot on the flop.

Advantages are disguising your hand when you hit, not value-owning yourself or unwitting folding the best hand (against lower draws), future balance when you flop something IP etc.

Disadvantages are not getting value from worse draws that check-call, not setting up stacks for when you hit, not getting villain to fold better (AK for eg).

Would be interested to hear from people who've analysed 3BP more in depth.

The above is the standard line I think (bet/folding), but personally I prefer checking back nowerdays since I see a fair bit of check-raise flop in 3BP being advised in this forum.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-06-2011 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItTollsForThee
In 3 bet pots I check back a lot when I have equity (only betting w/air and value hands). I know this in itself is unbalanced but I don't think it matters at low stakes since you won't have a decent sample of 3BP against any single player.

Checking behind with things like bottom pair (if they've 3 Bet small pre etc) and draws and getting to showdown for cheap is the way forward IMO.

OBVIOUS STATEMENT: By checking back you give yourself the opportunity of making the best hand on the turn/river instead of trying to buy the pot on the flop.

Advantages are disguising your hand when you hit, not value-owning yourself or unwitting folding the best hand (against lower draws), future balance when you flop something IP etc.

Disadvantages are not getting value from worse draws that check-call, not setting up stacks for when you hit, not getting villain to fold better (AK for eg).

Would be interested to hear from people who've analysed 3BP more in depth.

The above is the standard line I think (bet/folding), but personally I prefer checking back nowerdays since I see a fair bit of check-raise flop in 3BP being advised in this forum.
That's interesting. I think it has a lot to do with board texture and 3b range.. (the latter being an unknown variable here) the situation here is one where we're likely to get c/r quite a bit so I like checking back some of the time. With more reads bet/3bet play becomes a lot stronger too but here I like b/f most of the time and checking back some of the time.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-07-2011 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikiforos86
That's interesting. I think it has a lot to do with board texture and 3b range.. (the latter being an unknown variable here) the situation here is one where we're likely to get c/r quite a bit so I like checking back some of the time. With more reads bet/3bet play becomes a lot stronger too but here I like b/f most of the time and checking back some of the time.
why do you think we're likely to get c/r quite a bit?
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-07-2011 , 03:27 AM
Im checking back here pretty much always unless I have reads that villain 3bets then check/folds the flops he doesn't like.

However it will be noted that some reggish players will 3bet then check/fold flops like this, but given its a lower stakes game I dont think we have much fold equity and we are actually getting check/raised a lot here.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-07-2011 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitheone
why do you think we're likely to get c/r quite a bit?
I just meant more than other types of boards, it is fairly wet. If opponent does utilise C/R in 3bp as semi bluff or w value hands, this is a kind of board he will do it on. Obv we do not have that as a read, so if I choose to check back SOME of the time, I will do it depending on board texture and when I have some equity I don't mind realising.
KQ in 3bet pot Quote
11-07-2011 , 01:24 PM
Itstollforthee very intresting post.The problem here is that we haven't got that much equity and there is almost nothing that he 3bet pre and we 'll beat on the flop:-against smal pocket pairs we have 42% equity and he won't c/r flop
-against AK or AQ we have 27% equity
-suited connectors hit very well this flop.
plus we don't even know if all of our outs are clean.

That said,i think it is mandatory to take a stab on flop when check to us like coffeeyay said and fold to any raise.

P.S actually i think we should play KQ here similar to any air hand (ex.72o)
KQ in 3bet pot Quote

      
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