Below i posted a couple of hands against callingstations. I deleted the results and hands from my point of view. Tbh - i majorly seem to struggle playing against these kind of guys. I always read we need to stab and cbet. I compared my results from when i played 30s on a different site - my CBet frequency since then is down 10% to 50% playing against such donks - and it still gives me major problems. Those hands imo represent the player pool very well.

If you look at these hands, what would you suggest regarding "naked" Cbetting? I sometimes feel, when i play these guys, i simple just should check/fold flops with hands (or check them down - since thats an option these guys actually do quite often - they dont attack much) that have less than 6 outs, bet draws careful and just fire away with real hands. I just think cbetting against these guys with Overcards (or non showdown hands) is such a waste and in the end more -ev than just letting it go.

And you cant just go along and 2nd barrel alot since they just seem to chase everything - hell if they pick up a draw on the turn, they call a check-raise with it....

Any kind of advice would be much appreciated, cuz these guys drive me nuts...

Hero (SB): 1,650.00
BB: 1,350.00

Hero posts SB 15.00, BB posts BB 30.00

Pre Flop: (45.00)

Hero raises to 90.00, BB calls 60.00

Flop: (180.00, 2 players) 2 4 T
BB bets 90.00, Hero raises to 360.00, BB calls 270.00

Turn: (900.00, 2 players) 9
BB checks, Hero bets 900.00, BB calls 900.00 and is all-in

River: (2700.00, 2 players) 5

BB shows A 2 (One Pair, Twos)



BB: 1,200.00
Hero (SB): 1,800.00

Hero posts SB 10.00, BB posts BB 20.00

Pre Flop: (30.00)

Hero raises to 60.00, BB calls 40.00

Flop: (120.00, 2 players) 4 5 T
BB checks, Hero bets 80.00, BB calls 80.00

Turn: (280.00, 2 players) Q
BB checks, Hero bets 200.00, BB calls 200.00

River: (680.00, 2 players) 7
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows 8 9 (High Card, Queen)



BB: 1,805.00
Hero (SB): 1,195.00

Hero posts SB 15.00, BB posts BB 30.00

Pre Flop: (45.00)

Hero raises to 75.00, BB calls 45.00

Flop: (150.00, 2 players) A 9 4
BB checks, Hero bets 80.00, BB calls 80.00

Turn: (310.00, 2 players) 7
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (310.00, 2 players) T
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows 3 K (High Card, Ace)

Make your range value-heavy, be willing to empty the clip on good boards, use timing tells to barrel.

Why you deleted your hands? Cbet against this players depends a lot on your hand, not only board :/

Thats actually an intresting point - why would you think a Cbet would depend on my hand and not only on board texture and opponents tendencies?

I consider a cbet something which has no clear or immediate equity and my intention is to take down the pot right now. But as you can see - that doesnt work very well, as i get called by hands with very little equity against my (representitive) range.

Equity + Fold Equity = Bet.

Against a calling station You want to valuebet Your hand, not find good boards to bet imo

in general, if you are betting halfpot, you need a success rate of less than 33%. make yourself aware of the fact that even if he calls 2 out of three times you are still showing a profit, although you can get the impression of him never folding due to variance. it is a good thing to adjust to this villain type and not bet horrible boards with no equity, but worse than not adjusting at all is overadjusting and stopping to cbet.

also as coffee pointed out, him not folding to cbets means that he gets to the turn with a weaker range and hence multiple barrells become more profitable.

1) vbet thinner
2) switch up ur ranges, just dump implied hands like 67s, play any hand with a broadway in it, even T2o. if a hand can flop a pair u can get 3 streets with, play it
3) position doesnt really matter...

are u really going to ask how to beat this person lol

67s is still > T2o vs stations because 67s can flop hands that get paid off more often...

High card hands have more sd value otr.

U wont have much sdv with T high.

How do you beat these guys? You catch a hand - you win. But my question wasnt really about that. As answered in this thread, its more about those common spots where you have nothing and whats the best line to take to save you a couple of chips which you otherwise would waste. Afterall it can take a long time til you get into some spots where you can start firing, and when this spot comes you´d like to show up with loaded guns and not with 1/3rd of your chips left since you blew it all on silly moves before.

Regarding the showdown value thing - if you look at these hands - i just picked them random and they are all from different opponents, but even these guys like one card have a high value. So when you come along with stuff like low SC´s, playing these hands against raises pf or raising them pf just seems like burning money - since you cant count on folding people out so you have to connect with something. That really makes those Ax/Kx/Q/Jx hands quite valueable imo - especially if they let you check down.

Looks like a fun game, can I play too?

Stations go to show down way more often than other players ... that's their tendency.
Er, totally depends upon stack sizes, no? And don't we have better implied odds vs. a calling station? He is much more likely to stuff the pot with a pretty pair those times we do flop well. Plus when we only flop pair on a low board they are ~100% guaranteed to float overcards. Just min-raise pre or, if they let you get away with it, limp and maximize your already huge IO.
^^^ Yeah, but seems like we only want to go multiple barrels when we can do so without committing too much of our stack. That hand with the flop cr + potting turn just looked like a train wreck. I assume OP had a nice draw there but isn't the advantage of drawing against a station that you pay a small price for your cards and get a high return when you hit? Building a huge pot trying to fold 'em out before you hit seems so backwards. If our value equation:
Pot Equity + Fold Equity + Implied Odds
hammering this hand is paying a huge price for what is likely a negligible improvement in our overall value. Basically, OP was just trading low cost IO for very high cost FE.


And, FWIW, against an unknown it seems like we have already established some aggression by the time we figure out he's a station. Don't you think we can adjust by playing a transparent but profitable strategy. Seems like by the time he adjusts we'll already have most of his stack. Granted, that's probably dependent upon stakes and I am lowly a micro donk.

No way, if i turn up with a draw in this spot the way i played it, you are allowed to poke me with a stick - had KK and shoved the turn as he would have called with any draw anyways - no reason in leaving 200 chips behind and when he realises on the river he has 6 high he folds...

For draws its pretty much the same as for Cbets - when you only have a draw you might bet small - but playing them aggressiv (like checkraising and shoving) only works when your opponent can fold, otherwise you dont have the necessary fold equity - and it makes your opponent feel really smart when he snaps you off with bottom pair...

If you only bet for pure value and not balance it with bluffs - tbh. i dont think they would notice and fold their hands (against these player types)...

I would also play my draws passively vs a caling station. you are value towning yourself otherwise

Oh, okay. GG, wp /thread

I'm gonna go invent the wheel now.

If someone is calling a high percentage of cbets then you need to combat this by tightening up your cbet %, ie do it less, and also value bet thinner on other streets as villain will be getting to showdown with weaker made hands.

of course villain may adjust, then you need to readjust etc

My flop cbet success is 39%. You are right, they dont fold. But Im making money, so who gives a ****.

I may get attacked for this but I have a very strong opinion on this topic.

You have to increase the size of your c bets and value bets at small stakes on the flop when the pot is small. Just betting a bit over half the pot makes the fold equity SO much better at these games. Generally I like to cbet small stakes heads up flops with hands that contain an ace, because you actually might have the best hand, of course any pair, but i need a SUPER dry board to c bet a station with a hand like QJ. I think betting 60% of the pot is the sweet spot here. I understand that the c bet will have to work more often to be better than 1/2 pot bet but I think it really does as a 1/2 pot c bet just never seems to work in the first couple/few blind rounds. It seems like the smaller the pot is the higher percent of it you need to bet to get fold equity from a station. Conversely when I actually do hit the flop I will often bet half the pot and assume I'm going to be called by a six outer hand. With a min-raised pot in the first couple levels I think you have to expect a call from station when you fire half the pot so do it for value and to protect your AK high and small pairs. I think you have to wait till a few rounds in until you can start c-betting air at 50% pot size.
Just bet for value early, you can make a move every once in a while with ultra dry flops and bet 60% pot when you bet air. When you connect drop the bet to 50%, they don't notice.. if they adjust then you can start c betting 1/2 pot. When the blinds go up a couple/few times you can usually get more folds from the 1/2 pot c bet.

I wouldn't call myself "callme" ...just can't help against this type of player

You're such a joke.

I do my best mate

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you didn't add your hands in because you were raising with worse hands than your opponent? If I played a guy who was calling large bets with k2 into an ace board, I'd be politely asking him to sit with me at 5 games.

Seriously, this is such a great type of opponent to play, I don't see why this thread even needs to exist.

Hehe, yeah i figured this out a long time ago (and its not my SN)

No i wasnt - i had the best hand all 3 times - twice it was close equity wise (like bad hand vs. bad hand) - once i had an OP which i stuck in for value obv. But the times it was close - if you´d play against a different opponent or on a higher level - cbets in these spots are probably very profitable - since people fold or you get some kind of reaction from them e.g. as a bluffraise. Yet here they call and call and call and you dont know where you are at.

This somehow made me come to the conclusion to just try and keep it small with hands hat have like high card or Bottom pair showdown value, and stuff like 6high where in most cases one barrel doesnt take it down anyways just try to check down.