A few questions. I understand the sample is small. I have been a sng pro for many years now, just donking around in these games because they are fun for me. I know I have a big edge skill-wise over the population.

1.) What graph should I be using?

2.) Am I getting unlucky?

3.) These are $7 spin n go max games. With 8% rake, are these even beatable? What about other stakes? 7% rake at $15's, 6.5% for 30's, 5.5% for 60's and 100's.

4.) I've been cursed with choosing the minimum prize, does this an effect on my ROI?

Thank you very much.

Apologies, those above 2 graphs are obviously the same. It's between the above graph and these 2, which one is more relevant? Thanks

Even more mongo than normal spins ,even fish doesnt like it they just try a few ,see that u can pick 10$ for 7$ buy in beating 5-6 players and rage quit .If there was rakeback it could be good for grinder ,they are probably beatable by quite small ROI and lucky for choosing big prizes ,from ur graph i see u are running like god way above EV and make 2% roi only which says all the story.

Mimicry-thanks for the reply man.

I'm a little confused though. Running like god way above EV? Which graph are you referring to? I think I have been running bad, are you confusing the lines?

I think fish will continue to play these fwiw. They run 24/7..

Oh sorry ,yes i confused the lines ,its oposite ,u run bad .Anyway my position about spingo max is same -mongo format ,but u can play whatever u like .I played 1$ SKO 6max hypers for fun for example which have big rake but still not more than 1$ spingomaxes and both have same bad playerpool.

1.) What graph should I be using?
None, there isnt a tracker that tracks these

2.) Am I getting unlucky?
I would say you are running fairly ok, making 21 cents per game on 7s on a format that you can multitable fairly easy and play 500+ games a day if playing seriously

you did hit 100x multiplier or so at game 500 and won it or took a deal, nothing unlucky about that sample

3.) These are $7 spin n go max games. With 8% rake, are these even beatable? What about other stakes? 7% rake at $15's, 6.5% for 30's, 5.5% for 60's and 100's.

Field was always weak in this format on all stakes up to 30s, 60/100s got a bit reggier.
I would say- yes, they are beatable on 8% rake on low stakes. To what extent, taking into account high rake, low number of hands played per game, almost lack of HU, I dont know.


With forced all-ins and random prize at the end, variance in these games is much much greater than regular spins, probably similar to MTTs. Hard to say how much of a sample is reliable to be in a ballpark of your true roi, its in 6 digits most likely :P


Format is fun tho, as someone with STT/18man in my blood from back in the day, i found it very enjoyable. If there was a rakeback on pokerstars it would be SNE printing for all 30$+ grinders.
If i had to play for living on pokerstars(with decent savings :P), it would be my poison of choice

dybbos - thanks for the detailed reply.

So none of these graphs mean anything? Chips graph adjusted ev means nothing? I feel like Im getting really unlucky, and also not picking the prizes well. It seems insane to grind something with this much variance and not have a way to track it. Surely there has to be something?

I didn't hit a 100x multiplier, that would be $700 USD. My biggest cash was $125 USD or something so far. Which converted into CAD is like $166.xx I think you might be mixing up my adjusted allin line, where I was chip leader heads up and lost 2 allins during the phase and took 2nd place. It says I should have won 400 or so, but I took the 2nd place money of $109 (Or are you referring to "nothing unlucky about that sample" for the simple fact that I was lucky enough to be in a 100x game?)

There has to be something said about 4-5 players where its winner take all. Not sure what % the games start 4 or 5 handed, (Seems to be the most common) but 76% of the time when it's 5 handed, it's WTA. 67% of the time when it's 4 handed, it's WTA. This seems just crazy and super -ev.

I too come from a stt background and these really are fun. I am thinking to switching to these full-time. I previously made an attempt at those 18man super turbo kos, before I lost most of my roll and after posting here and receiving answers determined they were in fact unbeatable. I do not want to make that same mistake. There is just absolutely no evidence of somebody beating these, I have scoured the internet for all the info I could find and haven't found 1 graph.

Again your feedback is much appreciated my man.

If there was SNE this format would be reg infested and all these grinders would have negative roi for sure.Dont forget in golden days SNE grinders have negative ROI on lower variance lower rake game 6 max hypers imagine in this....