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HT30-line check mid pair HT30-line check mid pair

09-27-2012 , 05:52 PM
Villain is a fish. Earlier he floated a gutshot and block minbet river with a low pair that he hit. Probably a pretty standard hand i just want to check what is best on turn and my sizing.

    Poker Stars, $29.37 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): 595 (19.8 bb)
    BB: 405 (13.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T K
    Hero raises to 60, BB calls 30

    Flop: (120) Q 6 T (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 50, BB calls 50

    Turn: (220) J (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 80, BB raises to 295 and is all-in, Hero calls 215

    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-27-2012 , 06:16 PM
    I'd play it like that.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-27-2012 , 11:33 PM
    .... Omg oesfd
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 01:13 AM
    i bet 90 ott because i like 9 more than 8.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 01:25 AM
    are you bluffing turn?
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 01:32 AM
    Shove pre? What would his 3bet% have to be for this to be a raise/call shove pre?
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 03:18 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bighomeytim
    Shove pre? What would his 3bet% have to be for this to be a raise/call shove pre?
    Can't tell, we need to know his openshove calling range as well
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 04:28 AM
    I think Im checking that turn. Dont see why bet, its either scare card for him and he will fold all worse, mby calling T but we block one, or this card helped him and we are behind.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 04:44 AM
    ^ this. He's folding worse and jamming over better. There is a good chance we improve on river, otherwise we got a bluffcatcher and might induce a stab there.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 04:51 AM
    I believe that if we are planning to bluffcatch the river, it is much better to bet turn/call shove, with all the equity we have. I think it's a weaker play to check/call river with so much equity, but that's just me .

    Also, to play for stacks on this board, since pot is 220 and there is no way we can make him put his remaining 295 on the river, something I like don't mind doing by turn with this board in which we have so much equity.

    Last edited by Melkien; 09-28-2012 at 04:57 AM.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 05:05 AM
    If he is shoving over our turnbet we definitely have the odds to call, but overall we are a slight dog against his shoving range there, so for us it would have been better not to commit all our chips on the turn with less than 50% to make the best hand. I think all that equity on the turn makes checking actually better, because we are not afraid of many rivercards.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 05:32 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Melkien
    Also, to play for stacks on this board, since pot is 220 and there is no way we can make him put his remaining 295 on the river, something I like don't mind doing by turn with this board in which we have so much equity.
    Why would you want to get it in mostly behind?
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 05:38 AM
    easy vbet, i think the sizing is perfect. and lol @ shoving pre w such a strong hand
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 07:04 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by none888
    Why would you want to get it in mostly behind?
    Why are we mostly behind?. We probably have fold equity, and even if he doesnt decide to fold we have great hand equity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JSpazz
    and lol @ shoving pre w such a strong hand
    I agree, it is much better to raise/call if needed.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 07:11 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Melkien
    Why are we mostly behind?. We probably have fold equity, and even if he doesnt decide to fold we have great hand equity.
    What hands are getting it in on this turn we beat?
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 07:23 AM
    i agree with checking back, i think it is clearly better than betting, i think we are behind of his continuing range and should take the freecard.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 07:25 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by none888
    What hands are getting it in on this turn we beat?

    My opinion is that we have fold equity. If he doesn't fold, he probably jams like he did, but even if we are behind there we still have an OESFD. It is important to not only take into account what hands we beat when he jams but that he may also fold and if not we still have a monster draw.

    Still, I think this situation is very thin and if you want we can take the calculator out and start deciding what the best action is but it's very close in this situation.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 09:08 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by none888
    Why would you want to get it in mostly behind?
    7,084 games 0.001 secs 7,084,000 games/sec

    Board: Qh Th 6s Jh
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 53.289% 51.78% 01.51% 3668 107.00 { KhTs }
    Hand 1: 46.711% 45.20% 01.51% 3202 107.00 { AcAs, KcKd, QcQd, JcJs, TcTd, 9c9h, 9c9s, 9h9s, 6c6d, AsKs, Ah5h, Ah4h, Kh8h, Kh7h, Kh6h, Kh5h, Kh4h, Kh3h, QcJc, QdJd, Q8s-Q6s, J9s+, Jh8h, Jh7h, J6s, Jh5h, Jh4h, Th8h, Th7h, T6s, Th5h, 9h8h, 9h7h, 9h6h, 9h5h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, Ah7c, Ah7d, Ah7s, Ah6c, Ah6d, Ah6s, Ah5c, Ah5d, Ah5s, Ah4c, Ah4d, Ah4s, Ah3c, Ah3d, Ah3s, Ah2c, Ah2d, Ah2s, KcTd, KcTs, KdTs, KhTc, KhTd, KhTs, Kc9d, Kc9h, Kc9s, Kd9s, K8o-K6o, QcJd, QcJh, QcJs, QdJh, QdJs, QhJs, QdTc, QhTc, QhTd, QsTc, QsTd, QsTh, Q9o-Q6o, JTo, Jc9d, Jc9h, Jc9s, Jd9h, Jd9s, Jh9s, Js9c, Js9d, Js9h, Jc6d, Jc6h, Jc6s, Jd6h, Jd6s, Jh6s, Js6d, Js6h, T6o, 9c8d, 9c8h, 9c8s, 9d8h, 9d8s, 9h8s, 9s8c, 9s8h, 9c7d, 9d7c, 9h7c, 9h7d, 9s7c, 9s7d, 9s7h }

    this is assuming he semibluffs turn vs our small bet w some hands like J9 but also flats premium pairs and flopped 2pair+ a decent % of time. add to this the fact that it'll be ridic hard to realize our equity vs hands lower than straight on most rivers we hit, not to mention we could end up mucking the best hand if river comes K for example. also this is just vs his c/r range, sometimes we get a call by a random Ax no draw or worse Tx/6x, maybe even stacking them on the river. checking is not really an option w such a strong hand
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 10:44 AM
    check back ott look fine to me, but if the villain was a really big fish i can see a little value betting the turn (but i prefer bet more in this case ~110).
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 11:09 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JSpazz
    7,084 games 0.001 secs 7,084,000 games/sec

    Board: Qh Th 6s Jh
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 53.289% 51.78% 01.51% 3668 107.00 { KhTs }
    Hand 1: 46.711% 45.20% 01.51% 3202 107.00 { AcAs, KcKd, QcQd, JcJs, TcTd, 9c9h, 9c9s, 9h9s, 6c6d, AsKs, Ah5h, Ah4h, Kh8h, Kh7h, Kh6h, Kh5h, Kh4h, Kh3h, QcJc, QdJd, Q8s-Q6s, J9s+, Jh8h, Jh7h, J6s, Jh5h, Jh4h, Th8h, Th7h, T6s, Th5h, 9h8h, 9h7h, 9h6h, 9h5h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, Ah7c, Ah7d, Ah7s, Ah6c, Ah6d, Ah6s, Ah5c, Ah5d, Ah5s, Ah4c, Ah4d, Ah4s, Ah3c, Ah3d, Ah3s, Ah2c, Ah2d, Ah2s, KcTd, KcTs, KdTs, KhTc, KhTd, KhTs, Kc9d, Kc9h, Kc9s, Kd9s, K8o-K6o, QcJd, QcJh, QcJs, QdJh, QdJs, QhJs, QdTc, QhTc, QhTd, QsTc, QsTd, QsTh, Q9o-Q6o, JTo, Jc9d, Jc9h, Jc9s, Jd9h, Jd9s, Jh9s, Js9c, Js9d, Js9h, Jc6d, Jc6h, Jc6s, Jd6h, Jd6s, Jh6s, Js6d, Js6h, T6o, 9c8d, 9c8h, 9c8s, 9d8h, 9d8s, 9h8s, 9s8c, 9s8h, 9c7d, 9d7c, 9h7c, 9h7d, 9s7c, 9s7d, 9s7h }
    I noticed that vill can not have the bolded hands, and that you only gave him one possible comb. of AA,KK,QQ,JJ & 66 and 3 possible comb. of 99.

    I am guessing that hero's equity looks favourable in this calculation, because he is ahead of a lot of villain's straight and flush draws shown above.

    Could not villain also possibly have combs. of AK,AQ,AJ,AT,KQ & KJ in his range, which would decrease hero's equity ? (You only included one comb. of AK)
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 11:14 AM
    ok I missed gutshots between T and 6 and fish will call turn bet with all of them with so I change my mind, but range above for check/jam turn is way too wide.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-28-2012 , 11:55 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JSpazz
    7,084 games 0.001 secs 7,084,000 games/sec

    Board: Qh Th 6s Jh
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 53.289% 51.78% 01.51% 3668 107.00 { KhTs }
    Hand 1: 46.711% 45.20% 01.51% 3202 107.00 { AcAs, KcKd, QcQd, JcJs, TcTd, 9c9h, 9c9s, 9h9s, 6c6d, AsKs, Ah5h, Ah4h, Kh8h, Kh7h, Kh6h, Kh5h, Kh4h, Kh3h, QcJc, QdJd, Q8s-Q6s, J9s+, Jh8h, Jh7h, J6s, Jh5h, Jh4h, Th8h, Th7h, T6s, Th5h, 9h8h, 9h7h, 9h6h, 9h5h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, Ah7c, Ah7d, Ah7s, Ah6c, Ah6d, Ah6s, Ah5c, Ah5d, Ah5s, Ah4c, Ah4d, Ah4s, Ah3c, Ah3d, Ah3s, Ah2c, Ah2d, Ah2s, KcTd, KcTs, KdTs, KhTc, KhTd, KhTs, Kc9d, Kc9h, Kc9s, Kd9s, K8o-K6o, QcJd, QcJh, QcJs, QdJh, QdJs, QhJs, QdTc, QhTc, QhTd, QsTc, QsTd, QsTh, Q9o-Q6o, JTo, Jc9d, Jc9h, Jc9s, Jd9h, Jd9s, Jh9s, Js9c, Js9d, Js9h, Jc6d, Jc6h, Jc6s, Jd6h, Jd6s, Jh6s, Js6d, Js6h, T6o, 9c8d, 9c8h, 9c8s, 9d8h, 9d8s, 9h8s, 9s8c, 9s8h, 9c7d, 9d7c, 9h7c, 9h7d, 9s7c, 9s7d, 9s7h }

    this is assuming he semibluffs turn vs our small bet w some hands like J9 but also flats premium pairs and flopped 2pair+ a decent % of time. add to this the fact that it'll be ridic hard to realize our equity vs hands lower than straight on most rivers we hit, not to mention we could end up mucking the best hand if river comes K for example. also this is just vs his c/r range, sometimes we get a call by a random Ax no draw or worse Tx/6x, maybe even stacking them on the river. checking is not really an option w such a strong hand
    It is closer than I thought at first place. Still I don't think villain will necessarily continue with all hands listed here, and will shove the stronger part of his range with which he dominates us. So in case our small turnbet will get raised we still are a slight dog. This is why I still prefer a turncheck, also because it might induce a stab at river.
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote
    09-29-2012 , 06:38 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by none888
    ok I missed gutshots between T and 6 and fish will call turn bet with all of them with so I change my mind, but range above for check/jam turn is way too wide.
    that range is wide coz it contains a lot of value hands, hands like xxhh or K9o which should be more discounted coz sometimes villain will c/r flop or donk at some point w such a strong flop draw and made hand on turn, or hands like TT which prob play it like this less than 1/3 of time but I couldn't discount it further. even if you made the range super value heavy, I think you'd be hard pressed to come up w a reasonable c/jam range against which we have <45% equity. and don't forget I didn't count in any low pairs and draws that just c/c vs us
    HT30-line check mid pair Quote

          
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