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HT HUSNG stratergy resources. HT HUSNG stratergy resources.

03-21-2018 , 08:51 AM
What are some good resources (books or videos) for Hyper Turbo heads up games? Im primarily looking at moderate to advanced material based on Game theory. Im aware of the Nash Equilibrium push/fold charts over at Holdem resources, and looking for material on those lines.

Thanks in advance!
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03-21-2018 , 09:57 AM
For HUSNG check out HUSNG.COM
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03-21-2018 , 01:08 PM
"I want advanced gto content" and "I'm familiar with Nash tables" don't really belong in the same post...
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03-21-2018 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas
"I want advanced gto content" and "I'm familiar with Nash tables" don't really belong in the same post...
Can you explain why?
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03-21-2018 , 03:23 PM
What previous experience do you have in hyper turbos and in poker?
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03-21-2018 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlpb
Can you explain why?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...brium-1699669/
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03-21-2018 , 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by xPISCIVOROUSx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadoula8
That's an impressive post Bob. You seem to be noticing the difference between what Sun Tzu calls -

a) A direct attack
b) An indirect attack

He says that these are the only two types of attack possible. In my book I do applaud him for this logic and use the same terminology myself. I describe this as the difference between a Level Two offensive play, and a Level Three offensive play. Level Two is all about reacting to an 'imbalance' in the opponents strategy with a direct offensive, and Level Three is all about inducing the opponents mistakes with a deceptive offensive. Level Two is all about the past, we are reacting to the opponents mistakes. Finding leaks, that sort of thing. Level Three is all about the future, luring the opponent into making mistakes. Pre-adjusting etc.

Once you understand that logic you can see how the mind has evolved over the millennia. In the early days of decision making, the beings were all making their decisions based on past experience. For billions of years the only way they could make decisions was by using memories past down in the form of instincts. They use these memories to show them how to react to whatever nature can throws at them. This is how all Level Two decisions are made. We learn something about an opponent, and then we make our plays in reaction to the information.

Level Three beings have one additional ability. They are able to imagine Level Two situations, without having had experienced it. Using this skill they are able to imagine what they look like from the opponents Level Two perspective. And thus they acquire empathy. They are able to imagine what they look like from the outside and so acquire self-awareness. They are also able to imagine future scenarios which enables them to plan their offensive.

(Level Two without Level Three is purely defensive. But once we add Level Three logic to Level Two, we become capable of making direct offensives)

I find all of this is all fascinating. It really is amazing what you can learn from a simple mind game. Surely there is some Darwin type characters out there who would love to learn about this stuff, but, with the entire learned portion of the poker world going mental at me it's extremely difficult to have any of my logic appraised.

You say that exploitation leaves you exploitable. I do not say these exact words in my book because they are just another GTO trick, twisting everything around to encourage everyone to use GTO. I do explain in my book that GTO is the only strategy that cannot be beaten, and so this means exactly the same thing. The reason I dont say that exploitation is exploitable is because it implies that their is a large risk of losing when using this strategy and that is silliness. We only exploit so far as is profitable. If we didn't find profit in an exploitative line we will naturally use the equilibrium strategy. GTO players say that it is a risk to use exploitation, but all of the profit in poker comes from one player being better than another. If two players are both using GTO the better GTO player wins. If they are both using exploitation the better exploiter wins. The profit margins are smaller when you use GTO, and that sounds better but its not. To make a living from poker you need to play against people that you are better than. And if we are the better player, we want our margins to be bigger! If you sit me with a micro stakes player they will take years to match my exploitative ability. It isn't like they are going to be able to exploit me just because I am exploitable. I will rinse them until they can match me.

Unfortunatly Bob, I suspect that this is not the only problem you have with my logic. Everyone goes so far until they start suffering from CogD. Some people can't understand Level Two logic, and when you explain to them that they need to give the villain a range they will struggle to grasp it, go mental at you, etc etc. Many, many people cant understand Level Three logic, and when you explain to them that they should consider a range for themselves from the opponents perspective they struggle to grasp it, go mental at you, etc etc. Sklansky went further than anyone else I ever saw, he actually made it past poker logic before he started going mental. I haven't had much of a chance to speak with him, as he avoids me like the plague, but I suspect that he misses a good few other details too. Everyone has their own limit. Everyone except beginners. I can teach everything to a beginner in minutes, and that is why I have targeted my book at them.
Where can I get this book? Seems very interesting, I think I'am still trapped in level 1.
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03-21-2018 , 08:24 PM
I don't think whatever book that guy has will help you based on the above post. He seems to be banned for spamming it everywhere on 2p2 too.

It may be interesting to some people to discuss these topics with him, but the post above is fairly long winded, filled with meaningless points made to look informative and silly stuff about reaching limits and going mental (the sklansky thing screams of idolism).
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03-21-2018 , 08:54 PM
I just posted that because nash charts are extremely basic (basically everyone past "beginner" stage knows about them) while gto is basically cutting edge poker theory. There's a ton of stuff in between, and knowing what nash charts are doesn't mean you should be worrying about gto poker. You should probably start with some basic and midlevel strategy stuff, thinking about ranges in husngs, valuebetting, etc. etc.
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03-21-2018 , 09:26 PM
I really like Flopzilla and Excel for calculating EV on decision trees. Cardrunners EV makes you go through all the details every time, whereas many times you just need an approximation.
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03-22-2018 , 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
What previous experience do you have in hyper turbos and in poker?
Been playing poker for quite a while now, but on Pokerstars for about 6 months I guess. HU hyper turbos since the last 2 months or so. I play $7 games. I come from a math background, so math heavy material will work for me.

Where do I start, really?

I have purchased Will Tipton's book - both volumes, does this help in hyper turbos, or is it more suited for deep stacked HU games?
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03-22-2018 , 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apologies
I really like Flopzilla and Excel for calculating EV on decision trees. Cardrunners EV makes you go through all the details every time, whereas many times you just need an approximation.
Thanks for the recommendation Apologies. Where can I get a primer on decision trees as it applies to Hyper turbos (or heads up poker)?
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03-22-2018 , 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfeen06
Been playing poker for quite a while now, but on Pokerstars for about 6 months I guess. HU hyper turbos since the last 2 months or so. I play $7 games. I come from a math background, so math heavy material will work for me.

Where do I start, really?

I have purchased Will Tipton's book - both volumes, does this help in hyper turbos, or is it more suited for deep stacked HU games?
Tried to message you but I guess you need to post a bit more here first before you can receive or send messages.
We have very similar interests I also play HU hypers/turbos, about the same stakes and I'm figuring out how to improve my game, start incorporating GTO into my game. I probably don't have the same math background and I realize math can help a lot once you figure out the right math but it's not a problem I don't think and I have other strengths.
I would be interested in studying with you if you so desire
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03-22-2018 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlpb
Tried to message you but I guess you need to post a bit more here first before you can receive or send messages.
We have very similar interests I also play HU hypers/turbos, about the same stakes and I'm figuring out how to improve my game, start incorporating GTO into my game. I probably don't have the same math background and I realize math can help a lot once you figure out the right math but it's not a problem I don't think and I have other strengths.
I would be interested in studying with you if you so desire
Sure, although Im wondering what's a good place to learn about decision trees, understanding board textures and understanding what ranges both players could have in a certain spot etc - all the usual stuff .

There are the Will Tipton books, but they are pretty dense - Ive read the first 2 or so chapters. Where do you plan on starting your study?
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03-22-2018 , 12:29 PM
Same thing. There's certainly good resources out there on the theory side of things but to be honest it gets a bit overwhelming. Also, as with most things, theory needs to go with some practice, to better consolidate the ideas.

I'm contemplating whether I should start by studying toy games. I think they could give me good insights and ideas that I could then apply to build my game from the ground up.
The way to go is probably to study the theory then take insights from the study and try to apply them, rinse and repeat. Too much theory likely leads to illusion of competence. Too much practice is spewing chips not knowing what we are doing. (at low stakes I guess it isn't that bad)
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03-22-2018 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlpb
Same thing. There's certainly good resources out there on the theory side of things but to be honest it gets a bit overwhelming. Also, as with most things, theory needs to go with some practice, to better consolidate the ideas.

I'm contemplating whether I should start by studying toy games. I think they could give me good insights and ideas that I could then apply to build my game from the ground up.
The way to go is probably to study the theory then take insights from the study and try to apply them, rinse and repeat. Too much theory likely leads to illusion of competence. Too much practice is spewing chips not knowing what we are doing. (at low stakes I guess it isn't that bad)
I've been watching a few HUSNGcom videos on Youtube and they seem like a great place to start, got a lot of insight from them, about board textures and when to bet and such. You should check them out.
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