HT 60s - Is this big BZ fine with TPNK? - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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HT 60s - Is this big BZ fine with TPNK?

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12-26-2012 , 01:00 PM

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

How big can we bet TP on drawy boards?
Do we rather make it half pot with no kicker or is it all about our TP?
I dont think the avarage population care that much.
Will villain fold FD, 9x, KT, JT, KJ, T8 to a bigger size?

Poker Stars, $58.74 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15155451

Hero (SB): 500 (25 bb)
BB: 500 (25 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 65

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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12-26-2012 , 03:50 PM

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

i think you underestimate the avg population - which is kinda hard to do, since they tend to be pretty bad.

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12-26-2012 , 11:26 PM

mela

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,228

About t60 seems fine to me, I probably wouldn't go larger than that

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12-27-2012 , 01:43 AM

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

How much does your kicker depend in this situation? IMO none since we will never fold TP to a cr or jam, but ive seen some people CB half pott when they have a bad kicker.

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12-27-2012 , 04:08 AM

Wisher

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 602

In this situation our kicker shouldn't matter a lot. Most of the hands that are calling are behind not because of kicker issues but because they are either draws or second pair.

As mela said - I think t60 here is the maximum I would bet but would never bet just half-pot, not because of kicker, but because there are so much worse hands that would call us, so it is for value.

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12-27-2012 , 11:48 PM

smeu

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 112

I subscribe to the above.

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12-28-2012 , 08:08 AM

Monty604

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 535

I agree with mela here bet 60 chips either way you're not folding based on how many combinations he can be getting it in with that you will be ahead of.

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12-28-2012 , 08:24 AM

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

Cool, agree.
What if villain min-checkraises? Do we fold since usually a mincr is strong and besides we have shown strength by making a big bet and now he takes a strong line vs a strong line, that just screams problem.

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12-28-2012 , 04:14 PM

Monty604

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 535

click it back or get it in.

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12-28-2012 , 08:28 PM

#10

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

This is something ive been thinking about alot lately, everyone says we cant fold TP in hypers readless, but vs some specific actions we know TP isnt good (for example vs a mincr on turn or a call-call-DB jam line), and i believe this is one of them.

What does he have when he mincr, 95o, A4, 7d4d?
Even against TP, 2pair, OE and FD we are 40% and this line just makes it even more unlikely to be a weak FD or an OE.

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12-29-2012 , 08:30 AM

#11

Laroutchez

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbambocha

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $29.37 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BB: 560 (28 bb)
Hero (SB): 440 (22 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 60, BB calls 60

Turn: (200) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 100, BB raises to 200, Hero ???

Are you folding that turn raise??! Kind of spot where I auto snap get it in....Probably a mistake to auto-snap

Interested by your comments MrB

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12-29-2012 , 11:41 AM

#12

mrbambocha

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,106

Id snap fold even AA there

What do you dominate here? 7x would cr flop, so what worse would he cr now?

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12-30-2012 , 02:01 AM

#13

mela

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,228

I agree it's a fold with A7 but I wouldn't fold AA in game. They are two quite different hands in this spot, and people can overplay 9x like this (98, T9 etc) often times.

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12-30-2012 , 10:59 AM

#14

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

we have way to good odds with AA to fold there unless we 100% know villain ONLY does this with straights

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12-30-2012 , 05:18 PM

#15

yaqh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,745

we're not getting odds there w/ AA vs 2pairs either, and id probably fold it versus an unknown. if we call, what, we're hoping he's just over-playing something with 9-13 outs vs us?

also if your BZ's big, use more k-points

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12-31-2012 , 12:08 AM

#16

mela

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,228

I think we're getting odds there vs 2p

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01-02-2013 , 11:54 AM

#17

yaqh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,745

Quote:

Originally Posted by mela

I think we're getting odds there vs 2p

we need 1/6 = ~17% equity to call for pot odds, and we have ~18% equity so it's close, but i think there's also some pretty clear/significant reverse implied odds even if we know he has 2pair: if the board doesn't pair, we c/f, and if the board does pair, we still have to guess where we're at while villain knows if he boated up or not.

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