those two are the same thing

No, they are not. It could be "wrong" play because it is not the best possible, but it could still be EV+/a winning game against a random.
Or it could be so wrong so it´s not still EV+.

Im not looking for the best optimal play right now, just after a winning play that is easy to follow to build a bankroll.

if you satisfy yourself w the mediocre in poker you'll soon be on the bottom of the food chain. just saying...

The NASH jamming range is guaranteed to be profitable from the small blind when less than 8bb deep no matter what strategy your opponent is using.

If your opponent is not calling with NASH, it's also guaranteed to be suboptimal. Still, it serves as a good readless strategy when below 8bb.

Above 8bb, it's best to treat the NASH chart as information that helps you formulate a strategy, and not as a strategy itself. Regardless of stack depth, this is also true of Chubokov. It is never meant to be used as a strategy. The numbers are useful in figuring out how deep it is correct to jam with certain hands, but they are not meant as an answer to that question.

Right now Im just trying to be 100% sure if there is a way to become a winning HU player just by following sharts because that would be very nice as a start. With all respect to you but I will not take a discussion about my ambition as a poker player in this thread.

After some research it seems like this is the closest to the truth about NASH i will come. Even thought I still think it may be profitable to use it as a complete strategy at the lowest Hyper turbo out there because players are so bad so I think NASH will beat them. Probably the only way to find out is to try for a while. Thanks all for answers.

I would also strongly recommend against this approach.

as if some people out there really are that dumb gullible and naive

just post not forget reading

I still don´t think anyone have motivated why this would be a bad idé. Okey, I dont develop much reading skills and that kind of stuff. But if there was a way to beat the game by following a chart, honestly I would not have anything against doing this until I am in no more need for money for the rest of my life.
Then I could start playing more for fun and develop my skills. This would be a dream-scenario for me and Im trying to find out if there is a way to reach it.

I still think following a chart is much funnier then any other normal work out there (even thoug I know most ppl disagree with this), and much easier then making cash from poker the hard way.

playing 100% from a chart will probably be marginally profitable post rake (0-1%) all the way up, and maybe including, the $10 games. You'll be left with a worse hourly than working at MacDonalds. Also the bankroll you'll need in order to play with such a low ROI would be crazy--like 200+ BI and you'll probably encounter -50BI swings once or more a month.

AND you'll still need to play OOP against non push fold strategies since Nash says nothing about them, or at least develop your own chart for what push fold range you want to play in a vacuum vs minr, 3x, limps, etc. and chances are this will not be profitable at all.

Don't look for shortcuts. Poker is hard, that's just how it is, sorry.

That being said, good luck OP tell us how it goes.

i really doubt you can make any sort of significant hourly 100% following nash

also what are you planning to do when villain limps

lol and the cliffnoting of coffee's posts continues

stop cliffing my posts while i write them not cool man, i put a lot of work into writing tl;dr style posts.

damn you! get out of my head!

hahahaha wtf

HU4ROLLZ Hundrye! I bet you're a bumhunting ABC player who i can crush! 6 tables, Superturbos, 30,000 games, let's go! Or are you scared to play the great COFFEEYAY?!?!

according to the chubukov hand chart should we always at least push if we don't know what other action to take, or its ok to fold some chubukov hands?

if it's Chubukov to push then fold is always worse than push. other options may be better though.

It can be correct to fold in situations where your opponent is sufficiently bad and aggressive. For instance, against someone who shoves every hand, some marginal S-C shoves might be folds because you can wait for a better spot.

I don't think this is correct with Chubokov as Chubokov doesn't even care if your opponent sees your cards. For Nash you are correct.

You're mistaken. Chubokov guarantees a +EV jam, but it's possible for you to get a larger edge by doing something else. For an extreme example, if your opponent calls wide from the BB and then proceeds to fold every single button because he thinks the small blind is an unlucky position, then it's probably better not to jam K2o for 10bb. Your edge is even more massive by winning 50bb/100 from the big blind.

Anyway. Chubokov tells you a couple of cool things, but if you are a player without a lot of theoretical experience trying to learn about endgame, I would strongly advise you to not pay any attention to Chubokov. In many cases, you'll actually be better off not even knowing what it is than trying to apply it.

That's not because it's some advanced thing only for advanced players. It's actually completely useless for advanced players in general because they already know the conclusions that Chubokov is meant to show. H2Olga doesn't need Chubokov to learn that it's better to jam Q7s for 11bb rather than openfold it (wtf openfold Q7s???) even against funky calling ranges.

From a FastTrack article (will eventually be made public), that makes the point of "Chubokov is not a strategy" before going on to talk about what it IS useful for:

Bumping this thread to ask :
If you think a beginner should rather ignore those charts, what do you think is the best/fastest way to learn how to play good push/fold ? (besides sign up for fast track obv )
I guess the optimal way is to estimate villain's calling range but how can I get a good approximation of his range during a match ?

Learn NASH and think about what good adjustments are when you get a little deeper against good opponent types.

I think you are missing card removal. This gives 36,7 % instead of 40,6 % and an equity of 35,683 (I did a quick look up in pokerstove - no double checking).

This gives an EV of 0,1872.