it's not against the rules but the rules are ******ed/exploitable.

He just uses his better reading skills. The lobby clearly says in colored letters "NO BLIND INCREASE, DEEP".
Every poker player uses the weaknesses of their opponents to their advantage. And he just gains his advantage from that they suck at game selecting.

And that many other poker players here find that cheating is pretty lol. They also gain their advantage from people regging for games their not skilled for.

And that they all suck is probably also not true. Ever thought of the possibilty that you play these games differently than normal husngs. Its like saying someone suck at husngs cause u saw them play a 6max sng.

He's a huge POS. He berates players when he loses an all-in after they've been shoving every hand.

lol @ u for acting like u dont. also im assuming u won that hand?

Imo he found a good way to make money with these type of sngs.
Timing down... well it's his way- I personally find it douchey, but who am I to judge?
He won't ever be respected and treated like a real reg, he chose that path. We should respect that and let him continue on his a**holeish ways of "playing poker".

guys , we are not talking about cowboymarco here , I have never seen him at the tables.

we are talking about a big group of russians that play this crap hours and hours a day daily , clearly making a living out of it. I would not be surprised to find out they are all part of the same group , maybe some local guy trained them to do this.

second , it is cheating , do not be so indulgent on them.

if a football team plays a game this way: they all pile up one on top of each other in front of their gate , so nothing can pass trough , the other team will never get a goal so there is 100% tie guaranteed.

Think this is not cheating ? Any referee in the world would give that team severe punishment.

Same with those guys that cheat at poker in those no blinds increase games. In real life cheating at b&m poker gets u in big problems/punishments , but these guys sit on top of thousands of $ they stole/cheated this way.

and for all those that try to find excuses to these douches , if you have the ballz , go into a b&m casino , sit any poker table(not to talk about HU poker) and time down your moves to the maximum. See how long you can last there and come tell the story.

ok so many things wrong here. I think that the hate here stems from jealousy. Everyone is mad cuz he's made lots of money and has way higher roi them. They want to criticize him cuz they don't like to see people having lots of low variance success when they struggle hard for less success. He Doesn't time out every single hand against every single player. That is one strategy that sometimes tilts people, but when he sees it not working or whatever then he plays regularly and just waits for the best hand. Marco may be a bit of a douche, (berating players etc) but that doesn't mean every nbi hu player should be criticized and called a cheater/scum. I play nbi hu plo and no one ever just times out everyhand, we play poker. Its a different strategy than regulars or turbo and the games generally take longer, but to say all people who play these are cheating and stars should remove them is just stupid. Both players have equal opportunity to do anything, if u accidently register for one of these u can time out ur opponent too, its not like marco gets a longer time bank than his opponents. once the cards are in the air everything is equal. occasinally people register by accident and don't have enough time to complete game in which case chops are often standard. most people, at least at plo, register for these ON PURPOSE and just don't want to have to have a shove/flip fest cuz blinds get so high so quick. unbelievable the amounts of haterade and jealousy on this thread.

so you do not see anything wrong with it because you are making money out of it and at in the mean time talking about morals and principles.

well , in all honesty I hope you get what your deserve.

How do you feel about players that register for NL ones and don't realize how long they take or register by accident?

Your other points are fine, though I think a little exaggerated and not taking into account the other side of it.

At the end of the day, Marco isn't doing anything wrong by playing these, but the time down tactic is definitely ****** and if he's doing it consistently that's enough not to feel bad about all the hatred.

But the real thing is that Stars just shouldn't offer these games. For all the hatred of the STs possibly killing the population (mind you talk, not proof or logic either way about ST being good or bad for a population), while these aren't as populated, does anybody really think these aren't bad?

The only thing I'm fairly positive about is the high volume of people that register for these by mistake. I was told that it happens very often. Given that, I'm at a loss to why these games wouldn't be removed, it's not like they are a huge rake builder for Stars.

It's also kind of crappy when all the other husng structures are pretty much capped at ~40 minutes max length and these things have been said to go on sometimes for 3+ hours. That's not even close to bearable and a warning should be appropriate on the lobby before registering. I'm not talking about anybody here that reads this (obv we can guess the impact of blinds vs no blinds, though I'm sure some would be surprised to know how long these have lasted), but the casual player that wants to play some sngs. Not only is he losing his money super fast, but he's having a horrible experience doing it.

I don't play them. I was railing that dbag's game to see if he actually time banks every hand(which he nearly does, but not every hand). It's not like he doesn't expect his opponents go on tilt and start shoving, that's what he hopes for. And then he berates them when they suck out on him. What the hell do you want them to do, play normal and not shove every hand like a tilting maniac? They would play normal if you didn't time bank every fing hand.

+1 well said ry

My point is this: you guys are making an assumption that no one (other than clock burners like marco) actually want to play these. This is not the case. Good players and bad players alike enjoy this format. Sometimes people want to be able to get a few hours of play out of a single buy-in. Yes, occasionally people register by accident, but this is a small percentage of people. Most people play these on purpose!!!!!!!!!!! It is like a chess match, that takes a long time and requires patience (but has a big skill edge). If u don't like the format fine, don't play them! But to suggest that the occasional person who registers by accident is 'hurting the game' cause its temporarily taking away like 1% traffic from your games is a gross exaggeration. Just because they are different and its not what u prefer, does not mean u should hate and try to get them exterminated. This goes for pretty much everything in life, not just nbi sng's ya big haters. Don't be so closed minded.

That said, I agree that marco's berating players etc is not cool, but please don't judge everyone who plays these as somehow being underhanded based on one of the successful guys dbag attitude.

[QUOTE=ChicagoRy;24639525]How do you feel about players that register for NL ones and don't realize how long they take or register by accident?

I feel bad that THEY MADE A MISTAKE and registered for a game they did not want to play. But how do u feel about 2 people who register for these on purpose and play each other straight up with no timing out or berating and have fun playing, but then have to be told by 2+2'ers that they are dirty cheaters and they'll get what they deserve one day, and their games should be removed from the network etc. I'm not trying to be confrontational ry, I respect your opinion and I know you're a good player and a smart guy. I just feel its unfair to criticize everyone who plays these structures and to think they should be removed based on one guy's actions.

imo they should be removed coz they often take a lot of time and I really don't think the average fish is at any time ready to play a 4 hour match w 1 minute breaks every hour during which you can't even take a piss. Offering these games hurts Stars' bottom line coz while you play one 100+5 nbi match you could've played a shitton of 100+5 regspeeds or 110+5 turbos, or even 100 NL cash and paid much more in rake. Also when a fish registers incorrectly for an NBI and receives anal sex from some douchereg, that's one less customer for Stars, not to mention that the games dilute the player pool

does anyone have a logical explanation why these type of sngs are still around?

the warning is actually a great idea and I guess it easy for stars to implement it.
I guess if we send some email they will do it, and it will definitely keep us from registering on these sngs.



This sng has a different blind structure. The blinds dont increase throughout the entire game. Prepare to lose 6 hours of your life with a ***** that times down the clock to tilt you. good luck

lol at you caring for Stars bottom line. Just look long enough to find a stupid reason to critique others cause u just dont like it. Why not just ban MTTs? I heard they take really long.

And these numbers for the length of these matches are far from the truth. ~50% of the games are under 30 min, ~80% under 1h and ~95% under 2h.

Average is around 38min. Thats just around only double of the Reg Speeds and I guess not far away from the Fulltilt Doublestacks. So before you critique a format and players at least try to get some facts.

I've played about 1k of these. never had a single one last 6 hours and i play pl not nl. the longest they last is about 3 hours and that is rare, only happens when two people are playing really tight against each other. I played one last night that lasted 1 hand. I would say avg time is about 1-1.5 hours.

take the case of some random guy that wants to try internet poker , deposits on stars "the biggest site" and tries a few games.at some point he ends up playing one no blind increase with any random douche (all those guys time down - it is not just marco - that is how they get big roi , they time down till villain sits out).

so this average guy who gave poker a try is filled with rage and thinking "this are the people that play poker ? this is what being a reg means ? cheating to make $ ?" and he quits internet poker for ever.

hundreds of thousand of people ended up hating poker regs because of those nbi douches , EACH YEAR.

in the mean time in the BBV forum like 3 times a week some honest guy that tryes to make money out of poker complains how the games have gotten harder and how the fish seem to be less often.

we should not be asking if what those douches do is fair/ moral while marco makes 10 2+2 accounts with 7 posts each and comes here giving excuses and defending himself.

the guys that play long hours on stars and multitable should take one of those games each day and bust marco and the likes of him. those timing cheaters should see what skill means for a change.

I can't really take those numbers for granted, I played 50bb NBIs around this time last year when I was still in the micros and I had at least one game take 1.5+ hrs every session and my avg duration was ~30 mins while my avg duration for deepstax is ~18.5 mins. I can only imagine how much time the 200bb ones take when you end up vs a limping villain. I can even imagine the typical conversation

Fish: hey pls wait 1 min I need to take a leak
Reg: tough luck **** head

too much hatred, too little thinking imo.
it should be in stars interest to let people get the poker experience they expect/hope to have. of course you cannot always satisfy this need because people sometimes have delusional expectations. but in the case of mtt's, regarding the time they take, i think most people know very well that they can take hours. also registering for a turbo/regular speed, they will mostly get what they expect.

in the case of nbi tables however, alot of the time people get a frustrating game that they didn't even want to play, they probably want to play a game with big stacksizes and not with extensive waiting times after every action, be it a check on the flop in an unraised pot.

from a few observations you seem to be right however, that a lot of games are played normal. so the solution is probably not to abolish them but to fix the loopholes for scumbags who intentionally time down to frustrate the recreational players, which is in no doubt horrible for the community.

you know what is funny , I am watching a nbi increase game right now that has been playing for .... 8 hours 20 min , and the timing douche has 900 chips left , and eh times every single move.

every single move , they are mostly check fold.

and the poor guy playing him is from my country. he has just been robed of 1 buy in and 8+ hours of his life.

Those are my numbers over a sample of 900 games. Played these last year for 2 months after cashing out almost all my money and looking for low variance money to rebuild. (Never doing any timing down)

Also chatted with a lot of the Regs there and most of them are also annoyed with ultralong games.
I really dont think its that bad to play these (even though I play Regs speeds again cause I hated to wait for lobbies). And from a skill standpoint its like critizing a Fullring Grinder. They do pretty much the same. Waiting for the nuts and then get the stack in (and taking 4ever cause they 24tabling).

So I feel I see a lot of double standards in this threads here.

pokerfun, ur ridiculous comments are tilting me. hundreds of thousands of people start to hate poker EACH YEAR because of the nbi douches? Is this a level? That statement is so absurd, I can't believe I even addressed it. Furthermore, I am not cowboymarco and cowboymarco is not a bunch of different players on one account, like u suggested earlier. Its 1 dude. To say that all nbi regs make their high roi due to timing out is also absurd. I NEVER time people out, EVER. and my roi is 32% over a thousand games. I have a good roi cuz i am good at the nbi strategy, which is NOT just timing people out. Its playing tight, patiently, avoiding flips, and adjusting to your opponents tendencies.

I can't imagine letting someone like pokerfun666's comments get to me.

Mr. Muckit, this thread was started nearly two years ago. Most people don't really care about you guys or that you play no blinds. Those that do are annoyed with no blind regs because they're able to take money out of the games without being good at poker.

It's not about timing out. You can never time out (though it can help against some fish obv), but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of profit for no blind regs comes from players who accidentally register and start playing very badly once they realize they're in a deepstack SNG where the blinds will never increase. This varies from players open shoving with ATC, or just generally spewing and making really stupid plays that they normally wouldn't because they just want to get it over with. No blind regs take advantage of these players.

This doesn't mean that all no blind regs are terrible or have no idea how to play poker, you might be good for all I know, but make no mistake, I'm right about where the majority of their profit comes from. It's not that complicated.