I was checking the odds of a hand post flop which was :

Ks Qc vs Jd 8d

FLOP : Kd 2d Js

Interestingly, this was 50.1% vs 49.9% with no chance of a tie, so of the 990 combinations remaining, this was 496 vs 494 with no draw chances. Obviously, the only post flop race closer would be 495 vs 495 (with no draws). The question is, does that hand(s) exist, and if so, what is it?

And for the record, I do not know the answer.

I fail to see how this question is relevant for this particular forum.. I also fail to see how this can be of any interest, but that might be just me...

Yes, this is more poker theory.

There are many hands that will mostly tie, but win the same amount of the time. An example is the same hand with different backdoor flush draw.

E.g. AcTc vs AhTh on Ks7h2c

For a non-trivial one:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

990 trials (Exhaustive)

board: T56

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ts4s	50.00%	462	66
JcTc	50.00%	462	66

Google is perfect for stuff like this btw.

I'm betting you fail to see the relevance of many things.

As far as interest level, well, it's a pretty cool question actually. One that captivates a lot more interest than your inane and relatively useless answers to people wondering how they played a hand in a $3 turbo.

No, this is not theory at all. It's a math question pure and simple.

But thanks for enlightening everyone by informing us that two identical hands will win the same amount of hands post flop.

This is poker theory and no the hands are not identical as they have different suits and therefore hit different flushes.

So this "cool question" of yours asked in a wrong forum is more relevant than my answers to questions asked beginning players in a forum which is exactly meant for that ... right.

No, this is not theory. A theory is one of perceived reality, whereas this is a simple quantifiable math question with 52 cards in which a 7 card sequence, 2/2/3, will produce 990 possible outcomes, and the question being is there a 7 card sequence that will produce exactly 495 winning scenarios for each player.

As for part 2 of your sentence, the example he cited would be identical post flop (the actual premise of the question) if the flop produced no flush draw possibilities, and anyone with an IQ over 85 (of which I suspect you might not have) would know that.

Perhaps a thread written more for the simian readers would be better for you.

1. I wasn't aware you were designated as the judge of what forum is right or wrong, but since this is a scenario only occurring in a Heads Up Hold Em game, and is something that many of us who play over 10,000 heads up matches a year would find a bit interesting (since post flop races are very common, especially at higher blind levels), I would say this is the PERFECT forum for the question, since HU players are the most likely to be visiting this forum.

2. What you need to realize, is the relevance of your answers to questions asked by anyone regarding a HU SNG is close to nil, since you don't play very well. Judging by a quick review of some of your answers to questions in the past, they not only are they not helpful or relevant, but sometimes embarrassing.If you want to disprove my assumption, and have an account at Bovada, I'd be happy to arrange a heads up SNG personal match between the two of us for as many games as you like that would reasonably quantify a resolution. Perhaps 300 games would do it.

3.You state that this forum is exactly meant for questions and answers for hands in HU matches and you imply that it's for beginning players. Well, lets look at the actual definition of this forum at the top of the page. Heads Up SNG and Spin and Go's : [I]Discussion of Heads up Sit and Go's and Spin and Go poker games[/I]. That seems pretty broad and generalized to me, and it certainly seems an appropriate vehicle for my question. If you can find any listing by the owners or operators of 2+ 2 that specifically state this is a forum only for question and answers for HU games/hands, then I'll retract my position. Otherwise, put your propeller beanie back on and get back on your tricycle.

Well gg. I would suggest you gentlemen to a hu4rollz to honorably settle this matter.

I let you win the cockfight, I have no interest in that. I understand from your swaggering attitude that you might have some ego issues. This is not about who is a better HU player (you might very well be and I couldn't care less and if you believe my posts in other threads are stupid, irrelevant, embarrassing, or w/e, feel free to chime in and educate me and I will be very happy about it).

This is rather about you failing to understand the following: this "cool question" of yours has zero relevance to a real case HU in game situation since you will never be able to narrow down opponents range to one single hand, and even if that would be possible, it wouldn't matter whether you have 49.9% or 50.0% equity vs that particular hand. Your question is about a pure enumeration coincidence, which is fine, but as such I do not think it belongs here. This is just my opinion, and I will be happy to change it if I appear to be wrong.

I don't know either of you, but OP asks a question that I could answer with google in less than a minute so my money would be on you.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/probability/

umm every hand in HU is 50/50

Really? So you're saying a google search will reveal conclusively in 60 seconds or less the existence of a hand scenario according to the parameters of the original question that will reveal any or all sequences with 495/495 win scenarios? Or the conclusive proof that none exist?

Well, as the old saying goes, put up or shut up.

There are 28,094,757,600 combinations available. Since I can tell you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, that is a little over 28 billion. So this is your chance to show me up, and run through all of them and give a conclusive answer to the original question with a 60 second google search. Good luck boy.

I get the feeling you have a long history of making bad bets,so you can add this one to your dossier.

I also get the feeling you have a tiny L imbedded in your forehead, am I correct?

You appear to be the one with the ego issues, since you felt compelled to designate yourself as the forum relevance police. This forum specifically states this is a discussion of HU SNG games. Not, this is a discussion of all things relative to decision making and opponents ranges in a HU SNG match etc..etc.... But simply a discussion of HU SNG poker games. So lighten the #$%* up.

If an owner or administrator of 2+2 chimes in and informs me that this question doesn't belong here, than I'll say OK, sorry sir, and that would be that. Or if everyone thought it was dumb question, than it would get no responses and die on the vine. But who the $#&* are you to tell anyone what belongs or doesn't belong in a forum? Do you believe you are a 2+2 forum deity, saving the readers from improper threads at sacred forums in the 2+2 universe? Gimme a break.

Fascinating thread. With the current state of this section of 2p2 we may as well make it sticky or something, it's so relevant, useful and interesting.