I had sent chadders my pt4 graphs on a regular basis he himself said I was running bad. When he ended our deal is when he said if I keep playing on stars I am due for a sick upswing. I don't know what else to tell you guys but this was a bad deal I was literally breaking even/losing and getting no help except for keep grinding from him or responses like this is going to happen. He even admitted in a conversation that he felt he was failing as a coach. So this was a waste of time for the both of us but there is no way I owe him what he claims I do. Once the agreement was ended he said just pay back the 1600 and we're even. Hence the last $500. Claiming that I didn't pay on time was bs too it was during christmas and I was gone all January.

Chadders, these convos paint an entirely different side of the story. You told him if he had a good ev roi, he could keep rb and go further into makeup. He obv should have confirmed before just doing it, but that's way way different than saying he straight up stole it and violated the terms of the stake. What were the terms?

Everybody else saying the typical stake doesnt allow anybody to leave until breakeven is pretty crazy. Im sure a lot of stakes are like that, but its a horrible structure. Look at how Sauce runs his stakes; a set number of games/hands and it is done with. Did you guys discuss how long the stake was going to last?

At this point it doesnt really matter because you ended the stake yourself. He didnt steal. There was a misunderstanding and you ended the stake, he owes no makeup. Should he have been better about getting the $1600 back to you? Yes, of course, but you also are handling this horribly. Find somebody older in the community that you trust, and before you go off and spam somebody's real life friends calling them a scammer, ask them if that seems reasonable or if there are better ways to handle the situation.

This is why pretty explicit contracts are necessary when it comes to backing arrangements. Even from that chat it's pretty clear that chadders isn't giving permission to just take RB whenever he doesn't profit, any interpretation to that effect is stretched to the point of implausibility.

The horse was cut due to the horse stealing MU, he should clearly be culpable for some of the MU at least. If a backer ends a deal in MU on good terms then he eats the MU, but when terms are violated/money is stolen and the deal ends it doesn't work this way. Good luck working out a buyout.

clearly states, "i'm gonna let you take rb or sumthin" he obv knew I wasn't crushing because he got my graphs. There was no stealing obv there was a misunderstanding because he did not mean with he stated.

also during the time of this stake my ss was not blocked he just did not give 2 ****s because he was too busy with his sne chase if you ask me.

I think this argument comes down to what was agreed on with the rakeback withdrawal. The fact that you needed this money to pay bills makes me think that your going to take more dishonourable approaches even if you know its wrong. I know Rich very well and know hes not going to follow this line unless he was supremely confident you were to blame. Also if this was the case and you needed rakeback to pay for basic living etc your clearly not made for poker if you let your bankroll get this desperate. I.e. get a new profession. Can u clarify what these said arrangements were? Also why are you not responding on skype all this time? If i was convinced I was right I'd be very keen to get some closure from this situation and not just ignore it and hope it goes away.

If you do something like <maintain 5% evroi and need money> then I will <give you rb or something>.

This in no way means "yes, feel free to withdraw your RB money now". It reads as "we will figure something out if your ev stays good and you keep losing". Pretty sure this is clear to anyone objective.

Your correct action would have been to tell him that you were running short on money and needed something to hold you over. Then you get permission to add some money to MU and he sends you some money. An understanding backer who you have a good relationship with would be fine helping you out. If he declines then you know you need to find a different solution. Your line is not to distort one sentence from skype chat and withdraw money without letting him know.

Not really talking about this specific situation as I don't know the details, but some people in this thread seem to think that a stake = loan. It's not. After hand # and timeframe terms are met, even if horse is in makeup then deal is done and the staking is over UNLESS it was specified beforehand that the deal can't end in makeup.

SikhStallion? Kidha haal chaal paji?

Sounds like a favourable deal for the staker provided that:

a) you are a winning player
b) you don't chip dump
c) he can quit the deal whenever he wants to.

This is another example of why it is always important to get as many details as possible in writing for players that you are staking. :-/ We are staking only HU SNG players and the agreement we have our players sign is 8 pages.

Saying, "like if u clock 5% ev adj for a month but lise* 3k im gonna let u take RB or summin and just add it to makeup", is FAR different than, "you get to keep your own RB" and he is allowed to cash it out whenever.

The guy cashed out the money, didn't tell Chadders, and wasn't able to deposit the money to make it up. That's pretty obviously not ok. On the other hand, if the guy would have agreed to a payment plan to pay it back, followed the payment plan, agreed to unblocking Scope, and then said, "Sorry. Cashing out RB was a misunderstanding, but I'd like to go to mediation if you are dropping me and expecting me to payback all 3k", I could see a mediator going with a number between $1,600 and $3k asking them to each pay some of the difference: Chadders for not being completely clear and still dropping the player and not allowing him to pay it off, and the player for breaking a rule.

When the player doesn't do that and just runs, it's much more likely a mediator that comes in late would award Chadders the full amount.

I saw Dave mention it, but assuming Chadders is right in the situation, I still don't see why is 3k owed after $1,600? Having $1,600 worth of rakeback is no different than having $1,600 in the account with no rb money/fpps. If the player would have cashed out the $1,600 (if it was cash, not rb money) and Chadders dropped him, he'd owe 3k. Once he paid back $1,600, he'd owe $1,400 more, not 3k still.

This were exactly my thoughts reading through the thread

He lost $3k. At this point he stole $1600 (4600), and paid back $1100 of this before ceasing all contact (took 5 months and endless hassling from me). The last 2 months there was no contact so I did this (7 months total). Yesterday he sent $500. The only outstanding and questionable figure is the $3k he lost in the stake.

We talked hypothetically about me helping him out (he didn't maintain anywhere close to a 5% ev roi), he took the money without asking and refused to redeposit it or part of it.

I didn't write explicit terms down, there was a miscommunication where I was under the impression Monty was sent to me by a previous staker of mine simpledude. Simpledude had staked me years ago in the first time I started making real money, I considered it a favour to stake and help Monty in return which is why I snap trusted him and didn't lay out precise terms.

Obviously I realise I am to blame for my own loss. I also realise the $3k is a shady area. I don't believe I am entitled to it all (though this stems from his inability to pay me and some of the statements I may have made in a desperate effort to get the first $1600), nor do I believe Monty should get away free of any obligation when the stake was forced to an end by him stealing.

I know I'm not gettin the $3k back at this point. Regardless of whether he owes me nothing now, $3k, or part of $3k this guy has ****ed me over, is a scammer and not to be trusted. I would have done this all over the $500 still on principal.

I see both sides of the argument


I personally dont think horses should ever leave in makeup. And once someone scams you then obv normal protocol goes out the window

Sorry to hear. Hope you get it back eventually

I stopped reading after the 1st 25 or so posts ITT, so if I missed something important, forgive me.. It seems to me, just on what I've read so far, that there wasn't a very clear agreement setup from the start. I've been staking and coaching people for several years and I've learned a lot from my own mistakes and the mistakes of others..

I'd be glad to mediate this situation with you guys if both parties are interested. PM me if you're interested..

If he hasn't or will not unblock his sharkscope, i don't see how he doesn't owe the full 3k. If he has unblocked his ss and can prove he lost the 3k legit, I really don't know the proper line. Also, monty comes off somewhat shady/scammer like by bringing into his arguments how chadders was too busy with his sne chase or is a terrible coach. Which obv has nothing to do with the situation.

Since the $3000 looks like a grey region, why is this thread worthy? Dont trust a guy over something that wasn't well-defined and understood in the first place? Im not sayin i agree wtih monty blocking his stats after this, but bottom line u got your $1600 back, the rest is something you two should get arbitrated if possible, i dont know if this means dont trust monty.

real problem is that conditions werent setup clearly! you shouldve set up a document stating all conditions clearly (not like if your roi is good, you can keep RB ... doesnt say anything really)

i personally was staked once for 2k games and IF I ended up in red, the staker would decid whether we will end the stake, or continue for another 2k games with little different conditions. As staking requires certain risk (you are borrowing money), it can happen that the person staked loses some money. And if isnt clearly stated otherwise, i dont see how he cannot quit after playing the required amount.

Probably worth changing the thread title to something more appropriate now he's paid the 500 back since the 3k is a grey area. Making this thread at least got me that 500 from a guy that was actively ignoring me for too long. I would advise to not trust him with money.

Not sure I get where 4.6k comes from

He lost 3k at the tables but made 1600 in RB. So total MU is 1400. Then he stole 1600. He has now paid the 1600 and the question lies in the 1400 MU.

What am I missing?

sry to hear the dude lost the stake and wont talk to u, but i mean u tried to teach a guy how to become a profesional with a 3.5k bankroll. what wer the terms? was he supposed to go pro playing 1/2nl

what games wer u trying to teach him pro level play at- cash,sitngo,mtt's?

3.5k might be a little under rolled, escpecially when ur learning to become pro

but what do i know im just a "newbie" with 21 posts

Why was the deal terminated? Is it because you realised him having withdrawn the $1600 RB, or did you say anything like "let's end this deal" explicitly? I think the issue kind of revolves around this, as well as whether there was some miscommunication between you guys.

And yeah, I was thinking the same.

Ok guys I don't know how to make this any clearer for you guys. I never asked Richard to teach me to play poker professionally. I am quite capable at making money at poker. I wanted to learn a different game and he seemed like someone who would be qualified in teaching these games (hu hypers). So I had asked him to coach me and I agreed to a staking/coaching and profit sharing deal. At this time I had withdrew all of my funds from online to play. I clearly can make money from poker and I can show graphs to prove it if I have to. Anyways, I told him I set aside 3 months worth of expenses for this deal to happen and we then talked about if I was to make no money. That's where there was a miscommunication in regards to this whole rb issue. When I told him I cashed out the rb he was furious and decided to end our deal so I said what about the make up then and he said just get the 1600 back to me and we are even. So where the hell does he get this $3600? Anyways as a coach he failed and flamed me in chat as you can see saying that, "I was too dumb to ask the right questions." How is a student suppose to know the right questions to ask? Anyways in regards to the coaching part of our deal he reneged. Furthermore, if he thinks going about and msg'ing my friends irl via facebook is going to accomplish anything he's wrong. I am sure enough people told him to go pound sand and eat a dick etc. Lastly, by doing so if Richard Chadwick ever sees me irl it will be a very unlucky day for him. I was very active in trying to get the most out of my deal with him but obviously the terms were not completely clear and he was not in a position to offer good coaching.

Peace.

P.S. - The only reason I avoid talking to this "internet tough guy" is because he seems to think he owns people's lives behind a computer monitor. Be thankful you got the agreed upon $1600 and if I ever see you irl make sure you run.

yeah i was gonna say.... chadder definetly 1sided the story