For the record, I am just complaining from a purely selfish point of view. I also think that any rule that is in place needs to be enforceable.

I would also hope you agree that a person who spends 4-5 years working on something to get experience, earn the win versus new players. They put in the time and really should beat new players, this is how it works in most competitive fields. But, less so with poker.

I mean look at the stats based on stack sizes, this is something I learned to do in my head. With PT4 and these new HUDs, that skill that I worked on and earned is obsolete. Someone with $100 in his pocket can do it better than me instantly.

I just find it depressing... that's my only point

I understand your point, and I'll give you a better reply this time.

I think you can paint a similar picture for good traders in the 80s or 90s. They likely had some developed skills that were easily replaced by super computers and model based trading.

However, this new technology and more information made a much larger amount of people more willing to actively trade in the markets, which is basically a good thing for pros, even if the environment is tougher over time.

I think the same could be said about heads up sit and gos. Though some major negative external events (bye bye FTP/USA/other country segregation) seems to have stifled the growth, perhaps even drawn a slight negative on it, overall this game has grown in the last 7 years and hasn't deteriorated like some of the weaker and more flawed game types out there.

The problem is I am not as arrogant as some other pros. I've been playing profitably since before pokertracker was used widely. I've seen the game change a lot, but I am only and have only been a mid-level winner. I'm pretty proud of what I've done, even if I am not a highstakes beast. But I always wonder if I will fall off that treadmill of staying ahead of the game.

So if something becomes popular where I lose an edge, I have to find that edge somewhere else. I need to come up with something new. I've seen it happen to a lot of players. Good players who use to make a killing. They lose there edge, move down, or just quit. It's not that they suck at poker, it's that the game of poker changed and they weren't playing the same game as others. Or the skills they had were ones everybody had, and couldn't learn new ones fast enough.

A big difference between the market and poker is that the market is not zero sum. More people in the market means more opportunities and options. In poker if those new players are entering with a reasonable understanding, it could make it difficult to stay ahead. If they have tools to replicate skills you've took the time to developed, doesn't quite seem fair. But again, I am very biased. I don't want to play a cyborg, and I am wondering where the line should be drawn. Otherwise, it's my bot vs your bot.

There are a lot of market tools as well and it is much more efficient today I believe than it was 20 or 30 years ago and it continues to become more efficient over time.

I mean, I'm obviously biased too, so you're not alone there, but there are plenty of examples of guys that did a lot better a few years after their first success, and guys that continue to do really well at high levels, and obviously people burn out, start to lose and fall out too.

But among the latter group, there is a pattern of stubbornness to address improvements needed in their game.

You should be proud of your accomplishments, being a consistent poker winner for many years is really good. It requires a lot of discipline and work to stay on top. But if you compare it to many fields, many which require 4 year degrees and constant study, they do offer more stability but there isn't much else like poker legal in this world where you can study hard for a year and become relatively profitable if you keep your emotions in check and really dedicate a bright mind to the game. And that doesn't even count the upside of the truly talented and dedicated that get to the triple digit hourlies.

One last point, I think you discredit the improvement and room for improvement of top players. Even the very biggest winner of all time admitted to benefiting heavily from his friend (talking about livb and h2olga) spending months with him helping him really improve his end game in super turbos. If a guy that has that much dedication and skill and experience can improve so much at a game he was essentially playing a third or half of already (50bb ftp turbos vs 25bb supers) then it really shows how complex and deep this game really is.

That doesn't mean you still shouldn't dislike things that mean you need to work harder or increase your risk of dying out, but I don't think you should be particularly worried or angry, especially since so much of this is out of anybody's control.

I'm proud of the site I've built, but I have no delusions that someone else could not do it, or even wouldn't have done a better job if husng.com didn't get made. Bad husng content wouldn't have remained the norm online for long, this forum was getting too good and the game was getting too popular. But I subscribe to the view that this forum is basically as good as it has ever been and remains a place where good players discuss relevant, up to date strategy in the game. I think it's natural that older people overvalue or rate higher older players they came up with or learned the most from between their unprofitable to profitable transition, but I don't think those are the best measurements of the quality of this forum.

Hey, I got PT4 + the Hud yesterday, and loving them both so far.

A few questions and minor problems:

I read this whole thread and saw a lot of talk about PT4 versions, postgres versions etc.. Should I be using PT4 4.04.1 or the latest beta release?

Also, I had the 8.4 version of postgres which came with HEM1, but I see that you (dave, I think) is recommending we upgrade to 9.2 (or something like that). I installed it, but have no clue how I'd move the DB from 8.4 to 9.2.

The hud froze a few times, and wasn't getting new hands till I re-launched it. Then after it worked for a few hands, and froze again. That's how I got to the postgres update question, actually

There isn't a stat for when villain limps, we raise, he flats it and we cbet flop? I mean his stat for folding/raising that cbet. Or am I blind?

Oh, and if some of you guys using the hud could post your layouts. I'm having troubles with space on the table.

Check back in the thread, but I think you need to update to the latest beta version of PT4 to fix these issues.


This may help too (from prev page) - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=142

Thanks. I read the whole thread but missed the part about backup+restore.

latest beta PokerTracker is a must (4.05.3 at this time), old Postgres is also a must - 8.4 is fine, PT doesn't like 9.2 or 9.2 for unknown reasons.

Don't backup+restore to upgrade if it doesn't have effective stacks properly, it won't do anything. Reimport is required.

As to layout, left/right (Black Theme is good), sit yourself on the right, not too bad to arrange panels around villain in this formation.

Also one thing to notice about Postgres is the last number in version. It's always best to use the latest (at least not very old) version. Latest one is 8.4.14.

If you have a 64bit machine then you can benefit from using Postgres 9.0. Latest version here is 9.0.10.

been away for a while did this extra video ever happen?

@ dave and butitswrong:

Thanks guys, I managed to make it work. Eff. stacks are good, it's just that HUD wasn't refreshing properly and everything was lagging. After upgrading PT4 it worked like a charm.

How about this? I'm now sure that there is no such stat, and my question becomes if it can be added for some next release.

No, but it's my main goal for the day to have that finished today, so you should expect it very soon (definitely within a week )

Glad everything works now, it's unfortunate that v4.04 "stable" is not so stable These unfortunate problems aren't only for the CoffeeHUD all HUDs are basically unusable in PT4 v4.04

As for the cbet after raising a limp, we can definitely add that to the list for the next update we already have an update planned asap (in final testing) so you'll have to wait till the next one after this one.

No problem. I can live without it, but it would be helpful IMO.

And it's not cbet after raising the limp (although that one would be good, too ), it's folding to cbet after limp/calling pre.

You guys should make a PT4 + CoffeeHUD discounted bundle.

We've considered it, but the discount for PT4 from the affiliate side, while very reasonable, is not large enough to do much there.

That's why we packaged it with the standard membership, it's the lowest price point product we have, and even there, it's a substantial discount to the standard membership from the business end of things. But the 400+ videos really does appeal to the lower and mid stakes players most, players that are going to be more cost conscious when buying stuff like PT4, so I think it's worked out well.

Hey guys,

Bought this HUD yesterday, it's great! Would just like to know if the following stats exist and I've missed them due to being overwhelmed by the sheer content, or if we could get them added?

-Delay cbet turn after flop checks through
-Double barrel after delay cbetting turn
-Lead turn AND river after flop checks through (afaik the current stats are lead turn and flop checks through, and lead river when turn checks through, but not a combination of both for something that is quite common imo).

Thanks.

Any thoughts on a HEM2 version?

zero

A notecaddy version is being developed with the owner of notecaddy and is imminent. Hoping before December, but I'm not 100% on the technical details behind it.

Turtles, I'll link your question to Coffee/Butitswrong so it can get answered, thanks for the patience.

These stats do not currently exist. However, I'll add them to the list of requested stats and we'll try to get them in on the next version

One week already
By the way thanks a lot for the lite version than i m using, interesting to see your next video with your full hud version before to decide to buy

Hi sorry about the confusion; after making it I posted it in a new thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...video-1265052/

It features the newest version of the HUD too.

This is in addition to the 30min walkthrough + strat guide video at the start of this thread

Enjoy

Don't be sorry for confusion, i probably understand nothing as usual
Here we go !

True story!

Updated to version 1.4.1 - Here

what has changend compared to 1.4?