I knew someone would post this as soon as i did. I should have changed my words as your completely right. I was taking this point for granted that everyone knows OP is solid enough and has the skills to create something good.

Well think of the number of stats--most of them are custom so had to be programmed individually. Throw in all of the design issues, decisions on which stats to include, how to define them, where to put them, bug testing. Add in the color coding, which was hand done meticulously for every single stat (including at different depths and streets) and involved doing math, research and checking with other solid regs as to their opinions. It ends up adding up to a lot just because of the size and detailed work this HUD involves. Also add in the HUD video which I put in significantly more than 40min of time into Overall all the little things add up really quick with projects of this scope and magnitude. It would be significantly easier to make a copy than make it in the first place because of all the effort put in on the design/aesthetic and theory side of things.

Also, I think this needs more love:
https://www.pokertracker.com/custom/...sort_order=asc

It's the CoffeeHUD light, fully functional just doesn't have as many stats--but it still has some effective stack based stats and other custom ones. Check it out I know a lot of you guys are low stakes guys who can't afford the CoffeeHUD so I have no clue how i managed to forget to post a link to this ages ago lol since it was made with you guys in mind!

First of all, sorry for my bad english!

Impossible is nothing, but im sure u wont finish that in 24h, except if u are an expert! And also when u have something finished and u just copy it, u will for sure do it faster, than his team.


I rlly need to defend coffeeyay here a bit, because im speaking with my own experience here.

Before Coffeehud was released i had a similar hud, with seperated effective stacksizes, but it tooked me so much time to edit/find all column formulas and to edit every single one. Also i needed to test it on my own, bc i wasnt sure if i had done it right, so that tooked also much time!

After several hours i had it finished. Then pt4 did an update and i had to do all over again.

Thats why i bought coffeehud, even having an own finished hud. Because it was just too much work to do it all on my own and i even didnt had all unique stats which coffeehud has. Im glad that his team is doin now all the work for me, future updates, better layout, all his unique stats (which i even wouldnt thought of it).

Im not a fake account of coffeeyay, i just felt in a way myself attacked, because i see always those guys, who are knowing everything better and needing always to cry about everything.

This guy is obviously trolling, why lay out the feedstock???

I actually think it's pretty likely that a skilled poker player and PT4 user could create a very decent knock-off of the hud in less than 48hrs (without sleep most likely) as most of the time consuming design/layout/what-should-I-include/does-this-look-right/should-I-put-this-stat-in-this-stat-group/etc... work has already been done. It's just a matter of grunt work which only needs to have time thrown at it without any thought or creativity.

Also lol at your posts CoffeeYay, so passive-aggressive imo

pretty harsh trolling coffee+butitswrong and coming to their thread and offering a hud for free just out of spite when they have clearly put a ton of work into developing a very good hud

I don't find copying someone's work appropriate, nor trolling their thread (most of your points apply to every other product you haven't trolled) and offering to copy someone's work and give it away for free instead or responding to their defense of your questions and/or attacks on said product.

Due to the sensitive nature of the work and my own conflict of interest, I've given the admin's email for this user to discuss this wish if he so chooses.

But I don't see how I can allow an unknown user, not playing husngs, to attack and then discuss copying and then potentially copy and try to give away for free a product that someone built.

If someone took a video from say HokieGreg (or say any videomaker on any training site) and copied it basically word for word, inserting a similar hand in example situations then offered to give it away for free during an argument/to spite them/saying it's easy, I don't think that would be appropriate either.

Again, if users think this is the wrong decision, it can be reversed, but my reasoning is in the first paragraph.

Personally, i think his posts should be deleted from the thread. I believe in constructive criticism but this guy is just pure trolling and purely here to not only attack Coffeeyay, but to undercut him in his product. The posts that quote him and any reference to him would need deleted too obviously. Maybe on the other hand it's best to keep them, to show everyone what a d-bag he is, and more importantly, how wrong he is!

Ryan I think you do great work for the community but I think you are way of out line here.

Even though I disagree with his opinion, banning him for expressing opinion is unacceptable.


I do not feel that he was trolling this tread. It seemed that he had strong opinion about people that sell HUDs.

And how is he coping coffees work exactly. If I create my own HUD that displays PFR 17-30bb deep does that mean I am copying his HUD and I should be banned.

I do not see why he is unknown to you should make a difference.

He said he was going to make a better HUD. If he makes a better HUD then he should do what ever he wants with it.

Very bad example in my opinion. What this guy is doing in no where near that. He was talking about making a product that is better. For example, if he made a similar yet better version of Universal Replayer then he should do what he wants with it

Banning this guy is the wrong decision and it should be reversed. It is unacceptable to ban people just because you disagree with him.

In my opinion it is bad enough that threads get locked and comments deleted when some one says something bad about husng.com, but this just when way too far.

The only reason you banned him is because you have vested interest in the product.

I think us 2p2ers need to speak up and say it is not acceptable.


P.S. I will be buying the HUD

i didn't read all the trolling and answers but i kinda get a sense of what's going around here and just like to say one or two things about this post:
-it's way easier now to make a hud just like this or to improve it a bit so you wont prove shyt.
-it doesn't (only) matter how long it take for the hud to be made, i once hear a story that went something like this:
man 1: make a draw
man 2: here it is
man 1: how much do you want for it?
man 2: 1k$
man 1: are you crazy, i just saw you doing it in 5 minutes
man 2: but it took me a lifetime to make it 5 minutes

i heard the story as "man 2" being picasso. so, the price would probably be even on the low side. also, sure someone could make a draw just like it afterwords and maybe even give it some color or wtv, but it wouldn't really be a picasso would it? it wouldn't have the lifetime and commitment to art in their lines.

also, this guy reminds me of cutcha something guy from the fasttrack thread. looks like bitter people to me. imo you can put the price you want on whatever you want if you correctly inform what the product does and i think coffeyay did that here.

i didn't bought it myself but it has nothing to do with thinking if it's worth it or not, hud looks great etc but i already made mine that i reckon is a bit worse but i'm used to it, also i'm still used to hm1. maybe in the future.

+1

this

not this

Replied in bold.

Some of his deleted posts:

And

So if a HUD building programmer takes 10 hours to build a HUD, that is going to be at least 2x the value in time than it would've cost to just outright bought this HUD for $100. But the price is so inflated that the expert feels the need to copy it and release it for free in the same thread?

I mean, again, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and the admin can tell me so and the users can tell me so here and we can reverse all this and let the guy give away his copied CoffeeHUD for free in this thread, but I didn't think this was appropriate in any sense.

I can see some of the views given the deleted post not being viewed, but I thought the deleted post went over the line. I welcome all opinions here from the heads up sng community on this.

But one of the points is that it isn't the "CoffeeHUD". It is actually a hud made for PT4 that anyone (with dedication such as Coffee's) can make, even if it is visually the same it is not copying because Coffee doesn't have any patent or anything that says the design or anything belongs to him. I just disagree on that.

He didnt want to give away "his copied CoffeeHUD for free in this thread", he wants to make his own hud, which even if it is aesthetically the same, isn't copying at all. There is a reason poker tracker designed huds to be made this way. I have no problem in Coffee marketing his hud, after all he actually dedicated time to make it and it isn't easy to program the stats that aren't already there, but it is not illegal in any way to "copy" (if that even is the word) his hud.

Moreover, he isn't breaking the code at all. If he actually programs it himself it is not bad in any way, since he's dedicating his own time. Are OpenOffice and Microsoft Word the same? Of course not, but they serve the same purpose. The OpenOffice guys didn't break the Word code or copy it in any way. The real difference you get from getting the free hud or Coffee's hud is the support that you will get in the future.

Very well said.

Personally I know that I have looked at other HUDs and said that certain stats are useful and added them to my HUD. Does that mean I should be banned for copying someone else's HUD?

It is not like Coffeeyay patent stat PFR 17-30 bb deep. Everyone should be able to take an advantage of customizable stats.


Ryan, if this is your view then when you think about it almost everyone "copied" someone when it comes to HUDs. It can be anything from certain stats, to how it is displayed. You can ban like 90%+ people on this board.

I apologise if you took that as an insult, it wasnt meant to be. I remember seeing it when Mers's ebook was coming out.

Again a really bad example. This is not what this guy was doing.

Like a month ago some dude started PMing everyone and said that he will sell chadders pack cheaper. Sure, people like that should be getting banned. This is stealing.

If he would "copy" any other HUD you wouldn't care, this is not like the chadders pack incident.

Also I want to point out that no 2 HUDs will be exactly the same. There are number of ways to program it to get similar result, so it is not like he is stealing coffees code or anything.

Quote:

the guy blatantly said he copied the HUD Coffee created and would give it away for free.

It is not right to ban some one who is creating a HUD based on another HUD. Or most people that use HUDs should be banned.

Also, if trolling and personal attack was ever an issue here then there would be a bunch of people that would have gotten banned in the Reg Thread before this guy.

He didn't say he was creating it based on another HUD. He came in here and said he would copy Coffee's hud and give it away for free bc he thinks it's a rip off.

I didn't take the other comment as an insult, I meant "I don't mean to be insulting" as in I don't want to insult you by asking the question (in response to you saying threads are locked/posts deleted).

When Mers ebook came out no threads were locked or posts deleted as far as I know. In fact, the most profitable player in HUSNGs came out against it, argued with Mers for awhile about the book being bad to release for free, and the entire debate remains on these forums, in an unlocked thread with no posts deleted. Others shared that player's view, and some others did not. It was an open discussion.

Look, if the guy was making a free HUD and offering it to the community there would be no issue. He came in here arguing (which is fine) but then specifically said he was copying Coffee's HUD because he wasn't satisfied with Coffee's answer. He even PMed Coffee saying he would consider not releasing it in exchange for a public apology.

I completely agree it is one thing to make something based on another HUD or to take parts of HUDs or to use common designs. I by no means would ever feel that Coffee or anyone owned 15-17bbs or whatever in a HUD. But when someone comes in here, or any other thread and says they are going to copy it exactly and give it away for free, I believe that crosses a line.

You can say there were a few details that could have been handled differently by the player to make his posts OK in another thread or actions OK, but he didn't take those. He said he was copying it exactly (yes, he also said he was going to make a 2nd superior HUD, but his last post said he had copied the coffeehud and would give that away for free and he'd make a superior one at a later date, not that he made a different HUD, or made a HUD based on Coffee's, he copied it and would give it away free.)

Again, I never said trolling was an issue, no action was taken until the guy started offering what he termed a copied coffeehud for free via PM/email.

If you could build PokerTracker or HEM or offered a replica of a coach's coaching program or made a software that was the exact same as one in the commercial software forum, post in there that you have and you'll give it away via PM and see what the reactions would be. You could post a database program like HEM or PT in a separate thread, offer it for free even, if it's superior people would download that instead of PT. If it was a replica of the code and you went into their sponsored thread and said you were copying it, you wouldn't be allowed to do that.

Again, it's not the criticisms, it's not that he can't build any HUD, it's not that Coffee owns a patent on every part of a HUD or anything like that, it's a guy coming into someone else's thread and saying he's copying the exact HUD expressly to give it away for free out of spite/his opinion of the value of the HUD.

I am very surprised that anyone would disagree with ChicagoRy here. Going into someone's thread and saying you'll rip them off is highly inappropriate. Furthermore it was obvious he was trolling not only this thread but every other thread he posted in.

He was not just expressing his opinion. He was butt-hurt and said he was going to copy what Coffee made which is being a straight up nuisance and troll. If he was just expressing his opinion he would say his piece and that's it. He took it to the next level and made it a lot more personal and is attempting to rip Coffee off and I say his posts should be deleted for trying to harm Coffee's product. Coffee put time into it and was smart enough to partner with someone and market it. Fair enough I say, hope he does well with it.

You do realize that this guy will not create a HUD similar to coffee one's and never intended to do so, right?

Do you know this for a fact?

According to him he already made one.

There's an explanation for that:

Is the coffeeHUD light for use with PT3? also do u have a link for your free video

many thanks

It's for PokerTracker 4.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCV_Fyk445U

thanks, 30 day trial it is then!

I'd say it's more likely that he was motivated to be an ass and did make one than him lying, but who knows.