Bottom 2 pairs against turn shove - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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Bottom 2 pairs against turn shove

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02-15-2021 , 04:24 PM

pensodasolo

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 489

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 480
BB: 460
BTN: 560

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 8

BTN raises to 40, Hero calls 30, fold

Flop: (100, 2 players) T

Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (100, 2 players) 8

Hero bets 75, BTN raises to 520 and is all-in, Hero ?

Oppo is unkown. I think we don't beat anything here against a thinking player. What do you think?

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02-15-2021 , 05:08 PM

Duncelanas

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,333

If you're not beating anything here, then your opponent isn't thinking too hard...

I would snap this spot.

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02-15-2021 , 05:14 PM

Vvvvv

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 544

I'd bet smaller ott. He has all of the better 2p's and some slowplayed str8's, too.

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02-15-2021 , 06:13 PM

pensodasolo

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 489

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncelanas

If you're not beating anything here, then your opponent isn't thinking too hard...

I would snap this spot.

What do you think he may be shoving with?

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02-15-2021 , 06:50 PM

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensodasolo

What do you think he may be shoving with?

I can easily imagine fish jamming a bunch of single pair AX.

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02-15-2021 , 06:53 PM

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vvvvv

I'd bet smaller ott. He has all of the better 2p's and some slowplayed str8's, too.

Being at a nuts disadvantage doesn't matter here imo.

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02-15-2021 , 08:57 PM

pensodasolo

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 489

I think that this is really oppo dependent. Against reg is a clear fold, but even against a recreational player probably is not as snappy as it may look.

Hero calls 365 and is all-in

River: (980, 2 players) J

Hero shows 8

(Two Pair, Tens and Eights)
(Pre 38%, Flop 59%, Turn 9%)
BTN shows 9

(Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 62%, Flop 41%, Turn 91%)
BTN wins 980

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02-16-2021 , 01:55 AM

Vvvvv

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokieGreg

Being at a nuts disadvantage doesn't matter here imo.

What I wanted to say is that, I'd probably split my range here. And I'd bet bigger with stronger hands (+bluffs) and then I'd choose smaller sizing with combos as T8 (+bluffs). Not really sure it's a correct approach.

In this hand, it's opponent dependent. Call the shove vs some, fold vs some.

In general, turn raises are very strong from what I've seen. But again, some people like to do it with drawy hands, or complete airball (not very common anyway).

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02-16-2021 , 02:45 AM

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vvvvv

Why are you including bluffs in each sizing?

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02-16-2021 , 02:47 AM

#10

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensodasolo

I think that this is really oppo dependent. Against reg is a clear fold, ...

Should not be donking this turn vs regs, especially this size. Leading here is a purely exploitative play.

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02-16-2021 , 06:35 AM

#11

Duncelanas

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokieGreg

Should not be donking this turn vs regs, especially this size. Leading here is a purely exploitative play.

This isn't a donk, it's a probe. Flop checked through.

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02-16-2021 , 12:15 PM

#12

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncelanas

This isn't a donk, it's a probe. Flop checked through.

Oh yea, my bad. Well this is an even easier call, in that case.

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02-17-2021 , 04:46 AM

#13

Vvvvv

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokieGreg

Why are you including bluffs in each sizing?

I meant vs thinking players.

I am still not sure we are supposed to call this off. It's quite infrequent spot, as we rarely get raised all-in after villain checks back the flop.

Villain is in position. Do we expect him to play pair+draw type of hands this way?

In general turn raises are very strong from my experience. Be it click back or shove, I've rarely seen bluffs there. But I've played low stakes, so maybe that's why.

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