Just looking for a general consensus about my turn play. Reads: Villain is a station postflop. He has 3bet me once before, but it was 60/200 instead of 60/100. Flop call was float, assuming he's checking a lot of turns and I can take it away. On the turn his same sized bet looked really weak and not indicative of any kind of made hand, so I shoved on him. Thoughts?

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 948672
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): t1885 94.25 BBs
BB: t1115 55.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with T A
Hero raises to t60, BB raises to t100, Hero calls t40

Flop: (t200) 5 5 4 (2 players)
BB bets t100, Hero calls t100

Turn: (t400) 8 (2 players)
BB bets t100, Hero raises to t1685 all in

bad bad bad, fold flop. pf call is fine, but you're looking to flop a monster here. flopping a lone ace probably won't even cut it and i'll be looking to check it down or get away from my hand.

not that he always has a monster, but Axx flop vs this type of raise you're way ahead or way behind. it's a lot easier when you flop nothing because you should just fold.

Just noticed the stake. I have seen people take this line with hands like QT... in which case, you're still folding the flop.

shove preflop, watch him call with A2

folding this flop is awful

you wont believe the number of ******s that think it's cute to min3bet A2-A9o and then call off their whole stack with it pf.

folding the flop is AWFUL.
folding the turn is meh to bad.

whaaaat??? :S if folding this flop is bad calling pre flop must be BAAADDDDD

call flop call turn seems standard but not enough post flop reads given to know if raising is better. shoving doesnt look good though if u r raising it should be to induce imo

Because flops never change hand values and ATs shouldn't call getting 5:1 on your money.

Can't call this flop if you don't have a plan on how to play the rest of the hand. Folding this flop costs you (vs his range) ~100 chips in equity. (math edit: he's asking you to call 100 chips, even if your actual equity in the pot is 60% vs his range, you are only losing 120 chips. If your actual equity is 30% or worse, its a good fold. Since we don't know, that's why we fold here.)

Misplaying the rest of the hand costs you a stack (in your case) or 200 more chips (in borderlines case). Calling in spots like this leads to big mistakes later in the hand, especially if you're just learning poker (and that's why you're at the $5s).

meh since we are going to call here at higher stakes, might as well learn how to play the turn no at the 5s

and you wonder why people hate on you borderline

because i tell them the truth?

seriously, i have no problem with anyone called me awful/terrible with them explaining why.

Theres a couple regular Hunler's who can tell people the "truth" in such a blunt fashion without coming off as a dbag. That group of people doesn't include you.

Once you are good enough at poker, that your truth could with maybe 80% accruracy be considered the truth, then maybe acting like this won't get you hated on

u think i care?

haters gonna hate.

shove pf is huge +EV.

honestly, if you shoved @ $5/$6 with 77+/AT+ over these little gay min3bets, you'd be a huge winner every time you'd do it.

So a station min 3bet you at the 5s and is betting small on multiple streets? Sure, he might show up with worse here but a station betting, and betting to keep you in the pot it looks like, seems more like poorly played overpairs, AK or AQ. Shoving here vs a station you'll likely get called with any pair, Ax, probably not Kx unless he's a HUGE station. I don't know, maybe I'm too nitty. I'd probably just call turn and call his river bet of 100, or fold to a larger one, but i'm bad.

am i getting leveled? how can u fold? put a tight 3bet range of say 10% into pokerstove and assume he cbets this flop 100% and look at our equity. these min 3bet ranges tend to be super wide imo and calling down these two streets looks super standard to me.

if you stil disagree do what borderline said

No, I'm advocating that you can call preflop AND fold postflop and be right both times. There's never been any debate that flatting preflop is +EV, borderline is just saying he prefers to jam (which may work at the $5s but i don't think it's a profitable strategy for playing the $100s, so caveat emptor).

You're playing him like he's a maniac. Cbets 100%? Our reads say he's a station.

dont fold post flop here. btw are you playing the 100s?

I was playing the $100s before either of you were registered here. My poker career has come and gone.

oh, obviously it's not profitable at the 100s, but the 5s play nothing like the 100s.

but i tell you this much, if you're flatting pf with this hand and folding this flop with AT, you're going to get ran over.

here, postflop, call flop, call turn, river is usually a fold. sometimes a call.

Stations don't try to run you over, and you don't make money by calling them down postflop with ace high. If the reads were "Slightly aggro, can be spazzy" you'd be right.

i like this post.

Dies Irae,

Your advice in this thread, especially your first reply ("You're looking to flop a monster"), is absurd. Folding this flop in these circumstances is misguided, as is your reasoning.

OP: Call pf, call flop, and call turn. There's no need to shove the turn at all. The pot odds you're getting are sufficient to just call and pick off cheap (semi)bluffs/blocking bets with overs or spike a winning pair on the river.

I don't really agree here.

Calling the flop can be fine, but it's not that ludicrous of a fold for many $5 players to make.

Can be deceptive if you call the flop though (not relevant on whether or not to call though), as you'll probably tend to play too loose in a lot of spots after you're good in this spot and too tight in similar spots if he shows up with KK.

As far as preflop goes, if you play $5s and use HEM take a look at what you're getting min 3bet with (and what calls 4bets) and you'll probably start to see what you should do with most hands as far as 4bet or call. If I opened up a $5 right now I'd call preflop and not 4bet though.

Throwing in samples from $2s or $10s if you also play those is fine, as is combining/scanning other people's databases, as most people probably won't have huge samples of these spots.

Tone it down though borderline, if you're correct here it's probably pretty close and I'd take even money that call > shove preflop here in the $5s. Your flop comment looks accurate but it's not a spot where somebody folding is brutal bad or anything, spots where you miss a bet or bet instead of checking, make a bad postflop shove, etc. will be infinitely worse "leaks."

fish are fish wether it is a 5 or a 100.

this is making me want to lol 'run u over' he has min 3bet bet half pot bet 1/4 pot. im not scared yet. if he had 3bet standard size 2/3 flop jam turn diff story id think station prob isnt bluffing by taking this line

"Calling the flop can be fine, but it's not that ludicrous of a fold for many $5 players to make."

I'm talking about 100s here..