Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2010, 05:42 PM   #1
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,142
**** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

You can find the old beginner's thread HERE. Take a moment to search that thread with a few key terms in your question prior to posting, many questions are repeated and have several responses.

In this thread you can post:

- Hands with questions

- General questions (bankroll, tilt, structure, opponent types, etc.)

You may not post:

- Bad beats

- Flames, insults or other no-content remarks/replies

- Chat or other non strategy, no-content posts
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 07:03 PM   #2
mela
veteran
 
mela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dodging quads
Posts: 3,228
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

So this seems like a new start for HUSNG players.

Let me start off with this question: for those who play turbo HUSNG's both @ Stars and FT, which do you think offers a better format for turbos? In the end it becomes pretty much similar, but I just thought that higher ROI can be attained on Stars just because it gives more rooms for play in the first 10 minutes (10/20 and 15/30)..?
mela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 07:58 PM   #3
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,142
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by mela View Post
So this seems like a new start for HUSNG players.

Let me start off with this question: for those who play turbo HUSNG's both @ Stars and FT, which do you think offers a better format for turbos? In the end it becomes pretty much similar, but I just thought that higher ROI can be attained on Stars just because it gives more rooms for play in the first 10 minutes (10/20 and 15/30)..?
I used to think that Stars offered a higher potential ROI due to the deeper starting stacks (75bb on Stars compared to 50bb on FTP) and the slower time levels (5 minutes blind increases on Stars versus 3 minutes on FTP).

However, I saw a lot of the regulars on Full Tilt achieving similar ROIs (slightly lower but not significantly lower) to the regular players on Stars. This happened almost exclusively at the $55+ buyin levels, but not so much the lower stakes.

Over time I believe this is due to players in the Full Tilt turbo structure developing very solid mid to end game skills. The Full Tilt structure keeps a lot of play in the 10-30bb area and that is an area that non heads up sng players particularly struggle in, as short stacks are not something that comes up in many other structures (at least not heads up).

This theory would explain why the lower stakes turbo players weren't having as high of ROIs in the Full Tilt structure as well, since lower stakes players tend to have less experience and skills than higher stakes professionals.

I think both structures offer a lot of positives and few negatives. For beginner players, Full Tilt's rakeback system will reward you about 2x as much as Stars VIP system will, but you'll be playing a faster structure if you choose the turbo speed games and newer players are less likely to succeed in a faster structure.

For higher stakes players, they can achieve virtually identical effective rakeback from PokerStars VIP program as they can with Full Tilt rakeback. They may find a higher hourly rate possible if they have a strong end game on Full Tilt (faster games and similar ROI = higher hourly rate) but as of now the population of players on PokerStars seems to be greater than Full Tilt at these levels.

It's also worth noting that while different structures (FTP regular speed and Stars turbos are the most similar), the Full Tilt regular speed (6 minute blind increases and starting stacks of 75bb) and PokerStars regular speed (10 minute blind increases and starting stacks of 75bb) structures are excellent choices for newer players, as they allow a lot of time with significant chip stacks for players to develop reads and adjust to their opponents. It's almost certain that you will need to play a faster structure as you approach the $100 buyin levels and higher, however, due to a lack of action in the slower structures.

Last edited by ChicagoRy; 09-29-2010 at 08:19 PM.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 08:19 PM   #4
spamz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spamz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I beat 50NL, do not argue with me!
Posts: 9,200
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Yeah, agree. Slightly smaller roi on ftp turbo's than stars but your skillset will also develop differently. In general it means that on ftp you will have a better experience about handranges that don't change abruptly but transition into each other more than on stars.
spamz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:45 PM   #5
Duncelanas
Pooh-Bah
 
Duncelanas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Losing money at husngs
Posts: 5,358
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Hi guys. Loving the new forum Here goes:

I've been having some trouble with a good 3b range in most of my matches ($11 shottaking $22s now on FTP). I feel like if I only 3b strong I'm either getting it in against a v strong villain range or villain will be folding to 3b and I'll be losing value.

If I occasionally 3b medium strength hands I feel like I'll be called a lot when I'm dominated, plus I'm playing big pots oop with mediocre holdings.

If I occasionally 3b weak I feel like I'll be playing fit-or-fold too much, not to mention that even if I hit pretty well I'll have to fold out often because I'll be looking at a lot of 2nd pair or TPWK hands.

What should I do? Any help appreciated
Duncelanas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:55 PM   #6
ChicagoRy
 
ChicagoRy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ColoradoRy
Posts: 20,142
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas View Post
Hi guys. Loving the new forum Here goes:

I've been having some trouble with a good 3b range in most of my matches ($11 shottaking $22s now on FTP). I feel like if I only 3b strong I'm either getting it in against a v strong villain range or villain will be folding to 3b and I'll be losing value.

If I occasionally 3b medium strength hands I feel like I'll be called a lot when I'm dominated, plus I'm playing big pots oop with mediocre holdings.

If I occasionally 3b weak I feel like I'll be playing fit-or-fold too much, not to mention that even if I hit pretty well I'll have to fold out often because I'll be looking at a lot of 2nd pair or TPWK hands.

What should I do? Any help appreciated
First off, I do sense some results oriented mentality in your post.

I think a big step for you to improve in this area would be to take a look at your specific opponent before deciding what to 3bet.

If your opponent is calling very wide (very common at your level), you simply 3bet often for value, with strong hands and you should be confident in knowing that you are going into the flop with a superior hand that will dominate your opponent's hand a lot more often than the other way around. Postflop play will come with some tough decisions against somebody with a wider range, but posting hands in this thread or in the forum as a whole would be the best way to talk about these spots and learn.

If you notice your opponent folding a lot to 3bets, adding in weaker hands that you DO NOT call with OOP is ideal, as you won't be weakening your OOP calling range in the process. In this instance, you base the stronger part of your 3betting range (just because they fold a lot doesn't mean you should just flat call AK) on what they will call and shove with. For example, if you think your opponent only calls or 4bets against your 3bets with 77+ and AK, while folding the rest of his medium opening range, then flat calling AQ would make sense, whereas 3betting QQ as well as Q4 would make sense (AQ is a strong hand but vs his call/4bet range it is not strong, therefore you call instead of value 3bet, QQ is strong enough vs his range to 3bet and stick it in when he doesn't fold, Q4 is too weak to call OOP sometimes, if it is vs this opponent 3betting it is ideal because of the fold equity involved).

There are other examples and player types, but this should be enough to get you started. If it's early in the game and you haven't seen a reaction to a 3bet yet, you can often gauge what your opponent will do based on their tendencies in non 3bet areas of the match.

A follow up question with a specific opponent type/hand might also be beneficial to you.
ChicagoRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 11:12 PM   #7
rocaerix
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 463
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Got a HUSNG.com membership as per recommendation from regs thread. Any particular videos I should watch? I think the main leaks I should work on are playing in 3B pots, playing OOP and when to double barrel IP.

PS I'm really confused as to whether to post this in Regs thread, in LC thread with boobs or in beginners thread.
rocaerix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 11:31 PM   #8
Lespar
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 57
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

hey guys, i play in the microstakes and i've been having trouble with a hyper aggressive opponents.

A few examples are:
1. those that play a push or fold playstyle at around 20BB deep.
2. someone who would randomly push all in 2 times over 3 hands (around 50 BB deep)
3. someone who raised 4BB regardless of how deep we were (about 80% of hands).

It's the last example that is really stuffing me over. In this case I got around 500 chips down, then I tried to 3 bet him light but he just called and continued on his rampage on the flop (I 3/4 pot bet after missing a very dry flop).


Anyway what i've been doing against these guys is basically limping alot and hoping they go agro when i hit but it's not being all that effective.
Lespar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:01 AM   #9
Lespar
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 57
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Okay this hand was probably played pretty badly on my part but i'm really more interested in the turn.
This player seems to be extremely tight (check calling top pair) but he has pulled a move similar to this once or twice before.
I've also been pretty aggresive with my playstyle and that has backfired on me once already (so he knows i'm playing aggresively).

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.09 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 956011
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): t2900 29 BBs
BB: t3100 31 BBs

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is BTN/SB with J 8
Hero calls t50, BB checks

Flop: (t200) 7 J 3 (2 players)
BB bets t100, Hero calls t100

Turn: (t400) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t200, BB raises to t800, Hero folds


Anyway, is this a snap fold?

Last edited by Lespar; 09-30-2010 at 12:07 AM.
Lespar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:14 AM   #10
Get In My Poster
grinder
 
Get In My Poster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 1306 games be/losing and counting
Posts: 567
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocaerix View Post
Got a HUSNG.com membership as per recommendation from regs thread. Any particular videos I should watch? I think the main leaks I should work on are playing in 3B pots, playing OOP and when to double barrel IP.

PS I'm really confused as to whether to post this in Regs thread, in LC thread with boobs or in beginners thread.

Primo's hu from scratch is a good place to start, also skates videos and cogs vids are excellent. Its about time I go premium myself so I can explore the rest of the library.
Get In My Poster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 01:39 AM   #11
MrRunsGoood
adept
 
MrRunsGoood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: I love the game, I love the competi
Posts: 703
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

@ rocaerix - check out the forum and under "video discussion". Posters make a few suggestions on which vids to watch.

Last edited by MrRunsGoood; 09-30-2010 at 01:57 AM.
MrRunsGoood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 04:10 AM   #12
Shove
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 649
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Cant fold here, right? Villain more on the passive side, but not that extreme.

(no flush possible, flop was rainbow, turn brings a fd (J6))

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $40(BB) Replayer
($1,550)
Hero ($1,450)

Dealt to Hero 2 A

Hero raises to $80, calls $40

FLOP ($160) J A J

checks, Hero bets $80, raises to $160, Hero calls $80

TURN ($480) J A J 6

bets $160, Hero calls $160

RIVER ($800) J A J 6 5

bets $120, Hero calls $120
Shove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 04:38 AM   #13
coke
centurion
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tiki Taka!
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lespar View Post
Okay this hand was probably played pretty badly on my part but i'm really more interested in the turn.
This player seems to be extremely tight (check calling top pair) but he has pulled a move similar to this once or twice before.
I've also been pretty aggresive with my playstyle and that has backfired on me once already (so he knows i'm playing aggresively).

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.09 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 956011
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): t2900 29 BBs
BB: t3100 31 BBs

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is BTN/SB with J 8
Hero calls t50, BB checks

Flop: (t200) 7 J 3 (2 players)
BB bets t100, Hero calls t100

Turn: (t400) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t200, BB raises to t800, Hero folds


Anyway, is this a snap fold?
Against the described villain i think this is a fold.I would check the turn against a very agressive oponent a decent amount for pot control though.
Wp
coke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 06:27 AM   #14
RomeoXak
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Which is more +EV 2player HU or the 4players HU shootout?
how about 256paleyrs+ HU tourneys?

Can you share your views on advantages and disadvantages
RomeoXak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 07:58 AM   #15
coke
centurion
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tiki Taka!
Posts: 125
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomeoXak View Post
Which is more +EV 2player HU or the 4players HU shootout?
how about 256paleyrs+ HU tourneys?

Can you share your views on advantages and disadvantages
This might me helpful:https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/58...estion-144437/
coke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 08:04 AM   #16
rocaerix
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 463
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get In My Poster View Post
Primo's hu from scratch is a good place to start, also skates videos and cogs vids are excellent. Its about time I go premium myself so I can explore the rest of the library.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRunsGoood View Post
@ rocaerix - check out the forum and under "video discussion". Posters make a few suggestions on which vids to watch.
Cheers guys. I went looking in Videos forum before coming here but didn't look hard enough at all (obviously...). Also seemed quite quiet so thought it'd be simpler to ask here.
rocaerix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 08:46 AM   #17
RomeoXak
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
Thank you
RomeoXak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:12 PM   #18
jacket882
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 5nl Zoom
Posts: 88
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

I just lost 10 buyins against a guy in 15mins i played him the 1st match and he all-ined me on every hand.. i waited until i had AK called his all in and lost against 35o

he wanted a rematch and i lost that on hand 1 with 88 vs Q5 (i called cos i knew he was doing it with every hand)

next match AJ vs K7 lost

I won 3 matches out of 15, most of the losses coming with 60-70% pre flop equity and a couple when I ran my 77 into his 99

should I have stopped? isnt it +EV long term playing a guy who shoves all his cards every time? i guess I was just unlucky eh?
jacket882 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:21 PM   #19
coke
centurion
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tiki Taka!
Posts: 125
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacket882 View Post
I just lost 10 buyins against a guy in 15mins i played him the 1st match and he all-ined me on every hand.. i waited until i had AK called his all in and lost against 35o

he wanted a rematch and i lost that on hand 1 with 88 vs Q5 (i called cos i knew he was doing it with every hand)

next match AJ vs K7 lost

I won 3 matches out of 15, most of the losses coming with 60-70% pre flop equity and a couple when I ran my 77 into his 99

should I have stopped? isnt it +EV long term playing a guy who shoves all his cards every time? i guess I was just unlucky eh?

Don't you think you answered your long term EV question by saying you were a 60-70% favourite to win in most cases?
coke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:34 PM   #20
spamz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spamz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I beat 50NL, do not argue with me!
Posts: 9,200
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
I would check the turn against a very agressive oponent a decent amount for pot control though.
why would you ever do that?
spamz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:58 PM   #21
coke
centurion
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tiki Taka!
Posts: 125
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by spamz View Post
why would you ever do that?
Looking at the hand now i think that checking its pretty bad too since the turn its a total brick.So yeah,betting half pot is much better then checking.
Thanks spamz.
coke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 01:58 PM   #22
Quimp
adept
 
Quimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chugging maple syrup with a beaver
Posts: 1,130
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Edit... Cliffs: skip reads if you want, this looks like a std hand/spot as played but I'm curious at what frequency we want to actually donk the flop instead of check-raising.


Villain is a terribad nit. I'm looking at how to play with top 2 on a wet board. I'm not sure what is essential to determine this, so here we go (small sample):

- He folds maybe 50% IP; his standard PFR is 3x.
- He's 3bet me 3x 2-3 times but min-raised A7, which he checked down on TQK T X.
- He was passive vs my 3 limps.
- Villain lead for a PSB with 89 on 853, lead large-ish on the turn that paired and checked a low blank card.


Given this portrait, how do we intend to play this hand on the flop? I know nothing about his cbet frequency but we have a hint from the A7s hand.

Do we straight lead into him? I obviously don't care that he folded, that's not the point.

Full Tilt Poker $6 + $0.25 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t20/t40 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN/SB: t1170 29.25 BBs
Hero (BB): t1830 45.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with K J
BTN/SB raises to t95, Hero calls t55

Flop: (t190) K 8 J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t155, Hero raises to t480, BTN/SB folds


Thanks
Quimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 06:31 PM   #23
De_Evolution
banned
 
De_Evolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 853
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

its wet but you have tons of options, given that he wont cbet often you could donk a retarded amount like 80 and hope he will raise there or flat and try to take it away on later streets but its prob not happening bc he wont attack these boards often so cring looks fine, maybe c/c c/r turn would be ok but he is nitty so prob c/c lead turns, kind of depends what card rolls off, the dryer it is the more likely i lean toward trying to get him to steal it before he folds
De_Evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:17 PM   #24
urgkorv
journeyman
 
urgkorv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 211
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Is there any monthly graphthreads in the hu forums? if not, why?
urgkorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:58 PM   #25
MrRunsGoood
adept
 
MrRunsGoood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: I love the game, I love the competi
Posts: 703
Re: **** Beginner's and Low Content Questions Thread****

Didnt think my hand was thread worthy

Villian was really passive, he limped every hand pre and played fit or fold post. I havent been raising his limps to light as I can usually just lead the turn and he folds a good % of the time.Pretty much been running over him though the last couple of hands, however, he has push/3bet me, and c/r pushed a 56K flop (so he got a few chips back).


Poker Stars $5.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN/SB: t1320 44 BBs
Hero (BB): t1680 56 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 9 9
BTN/SB calls t15, Hero raises to t100, BTN/SB raises to t540, Hero...


I know folding 99 is pretty nitty but Villian has made it clear I have no fold equity and vs this player I think I'm crushed (flipping at the very best) - standard fold?
MrRunsGoood is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online