Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up?

06-09-2018 , 06:15 PM
Alright, I just returned to poker after years of absence. With somewhat improved health I'm trying to learn the game properly. It will take a lot of work and I'm prepared to do that. I guess asking for help is a good start.

I took some Spins and although I played surprisingly well during the early phases considering my long absence, I miserably lost in heads up to players who were obviously nothing short of terrible. Basically what I am referring to are the players who raise/limp almost every button, call almost every PFR from me, rarely fold to C-Bets and who make weird donk bets of their own. When I bet my midpair on the flop and turn they call it and make a random bet/shove on the river. The idea is that they just won't give up.

This isn't really anything new, it is the part in poker I've never successfully learned for whatever reason. Even when I was a much better player(I actually used to have very nice ROI in Stars MTTs some years ago) these were the players I dreaded to play against the most. Mostly I've dealt with the problem by trying to avoid the biggest non-fold donkeys but since I am going to start off with Spins and HU SNGs to build a decent roll with, this is not a realistic option anymore. I have to learn how to play against them.

I have countless times heard the classic "never bluff", "just value bet", "play abc poker" tips people share against these players but it has never worked for me. If I fold every sub-par hand in heads-up I am just bleeding blinds and when I finally make a hand it seems that they find the one fold. It's not that surprising if the guy who has been folding most hands suddenly starts to bet aggressively even many terrible players will throw away their hand at this point. On the other hand if I try to be "less predictable" and play more aggressively with weaker holdings I get called every time.

Can someone give me something more concrete than "don't bluff"? What range should I raise preflop? What range should I call his raises with? What range I need to raise his limps? How often should I 3-bet and how to play 3-bet pots vs. him? How to play postflop when I have a mid/bottom pair OOP? How about IP?

I am sure I could find many more questions but this should be enough for starters. This is the aspect I've most miserably failed with at all times. It probably wouldn't be a lie to say that I've lost more money to these players than I have to pros. This is a glaring leak in my game that needs to be plugged.

Thanks in advance!
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
06-11-2018 , 11:48 AM
Pot control
Relative hand strength
Don't go for as much thin value on early streets
Check-back
Have a balanced donk raising range
Don't bluff without some equity (never pure bluff)
Adjust accordingly
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
06-11-2018 , 12:01 PM
Don't follow any of the above, it's mostly nonsense or just outright horrible advice.
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
06-11-2018 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutsegger
Pot control
Relative hand strength
Don't go for as much thin value on early streets
Check-back
Have a balanced donk raising range
Don't bluff without some equity (never pure bluff)
Adjust accordingly
No offence but this is the exact kind of advice I don't want. These lines don't really say anything, I need something more concrete.
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
06-11-2018 , 09:48 PM
Yeah...unfortunately it's pretty unlikely someone will drop detailed, specific ranges and frequencies for nothing here on 2p2 in 2018.

If they're really never folding, find more thin value bets and cut some low equity bluffs from your ranges. You can definitely be getting multiple streets of value with your 2nd and sometimes even 3rd/4th pairs.

If they're actually folding a bunch but mainly vs your vbets and then calling when you're bluffing, you might consider working on your mental game.

Not sure why you would try to "aggressively play weaker holdings" (assuming this means pure low eq bluffs) vs guys who never fold.
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
06-12-2018 , 12:14 AM
It seems that in the past you were most successful playing nice and solid tournament poker and are not as comfortable 2-3 handed. So instead of Spins, just play 6-max and 9-max Sit-n-goes if those suit your style more.
If you do end up sticking to spins, don't forget about push-fold charts for later stages of the spins.
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote
07-14-2018 , 04:13 PM
Hi!
If you've done well in mtt's, then you have patience as part of your skill set.
You have to have patience in hu sng, the 800mtr runner still has to exercise
This skill as much as the marathon runner, your mistake propencity should
Be low from mtt skillset, hold off and wait and the fish will make big mistakes
As the blinds rise, wait untill higher blinds you can use SPR to help stack them
They are elastic, they will remain elastic in there calling at higher blindes, implement
NASH at 8/10BB, with a pinch of salt, i.e don't impliment it to the letter, make sure your
Starting hands have decent enough equity about 30% ish.dont inflate pots early
In match, exercise tilt control, there's no special prizes beating these people quickly
Don't let them bother you, S.w.a.t teams don't worry about two bit amature bank robbers
They implement frameworks and get the job done. gl
Beating "never fold" fish in heads-up? Quote

      
m