The extortion analogy doesn't work because the mafia does illegal stuff if you do not comply. OP is going to do something that is within his full rights as someone with enough money to BI to the game the other guy sat in.

poker is real life. and some people make a living with it.

LOL if FTP knew that a reg paid me $ to stop sitting him, i'd be banned for life i guess lol

I say we all sit this fcker in protest :P -hax

Imagine Phil Ivey leaving the high stakes games, stalking you 24 hours, sitting you obsessively, making fun of you in the chat box, and then saying he will crush your soul and you EV wherever you go from now on unless you agree to have sex with him.

Now, if you're cool with that, go ahead and defend this guy. I honestly think he did something ugly, unethical and illegal.

That's poker. Sit out if you don't want to play.

Oh dear god, don't make fun of me! Especially not in the chat box!

Oh wow, something one would worry about in real life. Too bad Nemo didn't do this. Also, nobody is following fish around and telling them to pay money to be left alone. It was one reg against another, so your previous post is pretty far off the mark.

Ugly? Opinion.

Unethical? Prove it.

Illegal? Wrong.

Yes, I also think people should be punished for doing things which I find to be displeasing. No, I can't explain why I find these things displeasing, beyond stating once again that I find them to be displeasing, but damn it, they do not please me and people need to be punished for doing these things.

I'll spare you a one liner LOL @ you and just say that was a ridic stupid analogy.

btw I don't have a problem with Nemo offering a deal in order to not sit him anymore. IMO, at least, that isn't/shouldn't be against T&C.

The extended berating/menacing/threatening "i'm going to sit you forever you POS" or whatever it is that Nemo said in chat is what I think warrants the harassment ban against playing him and why I think the punishment is OK. I obviously don't know the full story here or what was said throughout, though. I do think sites have a compelling interest to stop abusive chat and I think we'd all be talking a little differently if Nemo did this to a fish. I'm not going to look it up but FTP also has rules against chasing people around beyond reason, you're not allowed to say "you'll never play another game for a penny on this site without me sitting there".

I think a chat ban way earlier was all that was necessary, though.

Uh, I would report him for chat abuse and laugh my ass off at his sexual proposition?

I wouldn't be 'cool' with Ivey focusing all of his energies on hunting me down, but I would accept that I don't have a right to be shielded and to receive special protection from certain players. Such a right would have to extend to everyone, and would create an untenable poker playing regime.

So I'd probably stop playing HU games as my main source of income to dilute the effect of having Ivey sitting my tables. And play multi-player games where I could profit off other fish and vastly reduce Ivey's ability to exclusively play hands against just me.

By the way, I don't admire or endorse Nemo's behavior or fee proposition on a personal level. That doesn't mean I or FTP can justify singling him out for special punishment without addressing and refuting the concerns I and others have brought up.

Not being allowed to sit someone is a bunch of carebear bull****. If Full Tilt support was playing I would spite join all of their tables right now.

i dont play hu sngs and never really thought about it but i suppose it does make sense that this prob does go on a lot at SNGs. i guess if the sites dont have any specific rule against doing this(i just assumed they did) then it does seem pretty ridiculous that they banned u from ever sitting w/ him again. i could see them emailing u and saying they dont want this kind of stuff going on and giving u a warning not to do it in the future as common sense would lead u to believe extortion is against the rules. tho if there is no actual rule against it written anywhere i dont really think they should be actively enforcing a rule that technically doesnt exist.

as i said before, i think FTP is setting a pretty bad precedent by not letting u play w/ him anymore over something like this.

also if they booted u in the middle of games and u lost ur BI's for those games that is absolutely disgusting. that money should be refunded in full immediately.

ac on,

Asking someone for money with any kind of threat IS illegal. The fact that the actions you're threatning to take are not illegal does'nt change it. Take the case of blackmailing as an example. Here is a solid defintion of it from wikipedia:

Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand made upon the victim is met. As the information is substantially true, the act of revealing the information may not be criminal in its own right nor amount to a civil law defamation; the crime is making demands in exchange for withholding it.

NOW STFU.

if i follow a person on the street for a week and i ask him money to stop doing so, i will get a restraining order from a court. period.

nemo said he was following the guy around and asked him money to stop, he wasn't just doing his own business, playing his stakes and sitting him everytime, this would be entirely different.

Would you prefer they just banned him?

No.

My thoughts exactly, theres no way this is comparable to extortion on any level. I dont think this is any kind of dangerous precedent though, they said dont sit and Nemo sat and you got the FTP peen, such is life .

I'd prefer that they just told him not to ask him for money. Saying that he can't join someone's tables in a game type that has a king-of-the-hill dynamic is absurd.

It's a matter of nuance weather he wants to have sex with you, take your money, or make you wear a bunny suit for the rest of your life. As long as someone is trying to force you do something you don't want to do using a threat you have every right to get protection from this person.

i think the dangerous precedent is being told, dont sit w/ X player again. now if he is harassing him in chat constantly i guess that gives FTP the right to do that based on their T&C. i dont think following a guy around in and of itself would be a reason for FTP to issue that warning tho and would be pretty awful if they did that.

doesnt everyone follow scout?

I think instead of banning him, FTP offered this compromise solution (obv to get more money for themselves in rake, but whatever). It's a punishment for breaking T&C and they have the right to do so. Not allowing him to play HUSNGs at all would have been another punishment.

Clearly, it sucks, and there's plenty I'd criticize FTP about here (Nemo - if you want to give me the details on what games you had running when you were banned, you're owed that money and I'll send a few emails doing my part trying to get it back), but when you break T&C they have a right to restrict your play on their site.

Can't you pull off a more decent reply for the sake of the argument? I gave you an example that shows the following: you don't need to pose the threat of doing criminal stuff in order for your demand of payment to be criminal. Now please try to counter it or stop posting because this is not the way to argue.

Thx.

mersenneary,

LOL!

Good one...honestly

If you pay me $50 I won't embarrass you by how wrong your argument is every time you post about it.

yes

Go ahead.